I have an article on Online Opinion today which addresses some areas of political misrepresentation in respect to Ron Williams’  High Court Challenge to the constitutional legality of federal funding to the National School Chaplaincy Programme (NSCP).

But, as a bonus for my subscribers, regular readers, and anyone else who happens upon this blog , I’d like to address some items I was unable to canvass in the Online Opinion article.

High Court Challenge Funding

The first item relates to the funding of Williams’ High Court Challenge.  There are some rumours circulating that it is being funded by the Australian Secular Lobby.  This is arrant nonsense.

The Australian Secular Lobby (ASL)  is a citizens’ co-operative.  It functions very much like a facebook group.  People who are interested can ask to be put on the mailing list, people who need assistance can contact the administrators, but there are no ‘members’ per se, nor are there any membership fees, subscriptions, levies, sponsorships or donations of any kind.  There could not be, because the ASL doesn’t even have a bank account.  It is registered only as a trademark.

Yes, it’s true!   The ASL is involved in guerilla activism – that is, activism on no budget.  The ASL involves a lot of people who work very hard for no money and with no budget to lobby the government and to make the public aware of the fragile state of Australian secularism – particularly in our public schools.  If there are expenses involved  they pay them out of their own pockets, not from any secular slush fund.

So, if you see this silly rumour being perpetuated, can you please make a correction?  The ASL is not funding the High Court Challenge.  That would be impossible because the ASL doesn’t  have a brass razoo nor a piggy bank in which to store one.

While Brigadier Wallace claims his annual salary from the Australian Christian Lobby, our soldiers of secularism fight their battle for no monetary reward and with no budget.  Ironic, isn’t it?

The High Court Challenge is, in fact,  being funded by the Williams family who, I’m reliably informed, don’t happen to have a castle in Spain, a winery in the Barossa, a safe full of gold galleons at Gringott’s bank, or even an ailing rich uncle.  They’re just a normal, suburban family struggling with finances like the rest of us ordinary folk.

Behind the Williams family are many, many parents, citizens, educators and business people who believe passionately that the National School Chaplaincy Program is an assault on Australian secularism.  As such, they’re prepared to put their money where their mouth is to help Ron Williams pay his ever-mounting legal fees. (If you happen to support the case and can contribute a little – or a lot – please visit the High Court Challenge website and make a donation!)

The High Court Challenge vs Wider Concerns

Of course, as I explain in the Online Opinion article, the High Court Challenge won’t stop school chaplaincy and has nothing to do with whether chaplains are good, bad or indifferent.  It may, however,  succeed in cutting off one source of funding and alert Australians to the fact that nearly half a billion of their hard-earned tax dollars is being doled out to pay largely unqualified religious practitioners to work in schools which need, not chaplains, but  trained, secular counsellors.

The High Court Challenge has a very narrow focus and, if successful, a limited effect upon chaplaincy in state schools.  It won’t end chaplaincy in state schools and the High Court justices will not be called upon to pass judgment on the activities of the chaplains themselves.  It’s important to distinguish between the case and the wider concerns of many of those who support the High Court Challenge.

Just a Couple of Disgruntled Atheists?

And now, to the next misconception that’s being put about – that everyone loves the National School Chaplaincy Programme and the High Court Challenge is simply a malicious attempt by  a very small number of disgruntled atheists who want to derail it.

While, obviously, there is only one plaintiff in the High Court Challenge – Ron Williams – he is backed by a large and growing grass-roots movement of Australians who find the government’s entanglement with the Christian right disturbing, outrageous and a serious threat to the secular basis of Australian democracy.  Make no mistake!  Williams has the support of thousands.

Ministerial Claims About Chaplaincy

Expanding on my Online Opinion article,  I’d like to address in more detail some of the claims made in the  joint ministerial media statement by (then) Queensland attorney-general, Cameron Dick and (then) education minister, Geoff Wilson.

“Chaplains are only ever adopted into schools after the principal has consulted with the school’s P&C and the school community.”

Rubbish!  Scores of emails from outraged parents who were never consulted about having a chaplain at their school and presented with a chaplain as a fait accomplis are on file with the Australian Secular Lobby.  I receive many such complaints myself and pass them on to the ASL.

We know for a fact that evangelical churches urge their parishioners to stack – ahem – join their local P&C as a strategy to have the religious view prevail in state schools.  Sadly, non-religious parents, far less well-networked,  don’t realise their local P&C isn’t just comprised of other parents – it’s a sub-branch of the local happy-clappers.

“These non-discriminatory programmes show respect for everyone, regardless of one’s faith, and provide a valuable service that students really appreciate.”

No, they don’t!  The chaplains are overwhelmingly evangelical Christians recruited from fundamentalist churches.  A non-religious person can only be employed as a ‘chaplain’  if all avenues to employ someone with a religious affiliation have been exhausted.  How is that ‘non-discriminatory’?  Indeed, would it be similarly non-discriminatory if some future atheist Prime Minister determined that evangelical Christians could only be employed in a public school if all attempts to employ an atheist had been exhausted?

The very nature of evangelicalism means that chaplains don’t respect other faiths or those without faith.  Evangelical chaplains fervently believe they have a mission to ‘save’ those poor deluded souls who don’t believe as they do.  If they had any respect for non-Christians and the non-religious, they wouldn’t agree to work in public schools. – they would say:

“If parents what their children to have Christian role models and guidance they can bring their children to our church.  Our role is not to inflict ourselves or our faith upon those who don’t seek it, or are not mature enough to make such decisions.  Instead, we are here, in the community, for anyone who wishes to seek us out.  For the sake of the kids, use the money set aside for the NSCP to employ qualified secular counsellors.”

Just recently, in the Illawarra district, we’ve not only seen kids forced to attend SRE classes against their parents’ wishes, but we discovered the local SRE teachers praying online that this would result in religious conversions.  That’s the evangelical mindset.  These religious fanatics are on a holy mission and have no boundaries.

“.. school chaplains provide a vital and valuable service within [Queensland] schools.”

What service?  They are (officially) not allowed to proselytise nor counsel students.  So, what exactly do they do?  In fact, what they do is frequently overstep their boundaries.  We know that chaplains routinely engage in proselytising to students – students and their parents tell us.  In fact, the chaplains told us this themselves in a survey on school chaplaincy:

“In the two weeks prior to the survey,

• 95% of chaplains reported dealing with behaviour management issues, such as anger

• 92% with bullying and harassment

• 92% with peer relationships and loneliness

• 91% with student – family relationship issues

• 85% with sense of purpose and self-esteem

• 81% with grief and loss

• 77% with community involvement and social inclusion

• 76% with spirituality and ‘big picture’ issues of life

• 72% with mental health and depression

• 50% with alcohol and drug use, and

• 44% with self harm and suicide.

If chaplains do manage to control their evangelical urges within the school grounds, they ‘cleverly’ create opportunities to proselytise outside the school gate through after-school activities, school camps, etc.  Sure, these activities are ‘optional’ but they’re not marketed to the kids or parents as being ‘religious’ and, even if the parents realised what they were saying ‘yes’ to, it’s hard to tell a child she can’t go to camp or ‘make-up classes’ with her friends.

In Conclusion

So, to summarise:

a) The High Court Challenge is being funded by the Williams family, helped by donations from ordinary Australians who are appalled at the half a billion dollars of taxpayers’ dollars committed to a scheme designed to win the votes of Christian conservatives while short-changing kids and schools who are in desperate need of qualified counselors. (See counselor to student ratios by state on this link.)

b) The Australian Secular Lobby supports, but is not financially involved in funding the High Court Challenge.

c)  The High Court Challenge is not a frivolous case put by a small group of disgruntled atheists.  It is a serious case, involving some of Australia’s top legal minds.  The fact that it has been accepted for a hearing in May suggests that the High Court believes Williams’ writ raises some legitimate, if not yet proven, concerns.

d)  The defence of chaplaincy being touted by certain government ministers, chaplaincy providers bears no relation to the issues to be argued in the High Court (see my article on Online Opinion).  And, further, they should be thankful they’re not relevant as the ASL has ample evidence to prove that many of the claims are simply not true – or, at the very least, unproven.

As the date for the High Court Hearing draws closer, those in support of school chaplaincy and politicians seeking the conservative Christian vote will be doing everything they can to ‘spin’ the truth.  Conversely, Williams and his supporters don’t need to ‘spin’ anything.  They just want the truth to be heard.

Williams and his team have  a strong case and are willing to let it win or lose on its legal merits.  It’s a pity the Christians and their supporters don’t share the same respect for the truth, the same faith in our justice system, the same commitment to upholding the Constitution, or the same concern for the psychological welfare of our kids.

I may be an atheist, but I believe there are some things that should be held sacred.

• The psychological welfare of our children – whatever the cost.
• The separation of church and state.
• The secular nature of Australian democracy.
• And the right of every Australian, not only to freedom of religion but freedom from religion.

The National School Chaplaincy Program offends each and every one of these principles.

Politicians who support this travesty of a program should hang their heads in shame.

Win or lose, Williams case will not stop school chaplaincy in Australian public schools.  As important as it is, the High Court Challenge only addresses the narrow issue of federal funding for the programme.  It’s important to distinguish between the narrow focus of Williams’ case and the wider concerns expressed in this blog post.  It seems the only thing that will completely remove this ill-advised programme from our schools is a popular revolt against it.  It’s started already and it’s gaining strength.  Why don’t you stand up for our kids, secularism, and true freedom of religion and join the campaign against the NSCP.

Contact:  asl@australiansecularlobby.com

Chrys Stevenson

 

Disclaimer: Like many others, I have made some small contributions towards Ron Williams’ legal fees but I have no official connection with either the Australian Secular Lobby or with the High Court Challenge.  My only interest in this matter is that of a concerned citizen.

When I was at university I worked, on a voluntary basis, as a writing tutor for first-year students.  Many students got rather shirty when they realized that their personal opinions and experiences were not welcome in their assignments; their job, as undergraduates, was to consider the viewpoints of others according to academic criteria – not according to their own personal experiences and ideologies.  The temperature in the tutorial room was raised even higher when I suggested that, to maximize their marks, students might consider framing their arguments in favour of their marker’s particular bias.  Some were outraged.

“I didn’t come to university to be told what to think!” was a frequent complaint.

I explained that students were not being told what to think – they were being taught how to think.  Students could indeed argue against their professor’s particular bias and take, for instance, an anti-feminist or anti-socialist stance.  Theoretically, if their essay was good, it shouldn’t effect their mark.  But, human nature being what it is, they would need to make a much more cogent argument to ‘cut through’ the personal bias of the marker.  It takes a very accomplished undergraduate to do that.  As a student, I never saw this strategy as compromising my ethics.  I saw it as an intellectual exercise in, sometimes, arguing for a side of a debate I didn’t necessarily agree with.  In many instances, this changed my stance, or, at least, gave me a more sympathetic view of an argument I had previously dismissed out of hand.

To the rejoinder, “I should be able to write whatever I want!”, I replied, “You can – but you will have to accept the consequences of that decision.”

I went on to explain that, if my students wanted to write whatever they wanted, they should resign themselves to a future of writing only for their own entertainment.

“No-one,” I reminded them, “gets to write exactly what they want.”

Authors who wish to be successful, have to write with their readers’ tastes in mind.  They also have to write with a publisher in mind.  If you’re writing for advertising or public relations, you have to write for your clients – not yourself.  If you’re in business, you answer to your boss and your customers.  If you’re a journalist, you answer to your editor and the owner of the newspaper.  Blogging was in its infancy in those days but, even here, I’d argue, if you wish to be successful you have to write for your audience – and not just blurt out every stray thought you might have.

“In that way,” I said, “university is an apprenticeship.  You learn to write for an audience.  Here, your  audience is the person who marks your paper.  To maximize your marks, you need to understand your audience;  their biases, their likes and dislikes.  If you want to challenge your audience’s existing ideas and sympathies, you can do it, but you have to do it in a way that is so convincing you don’t alienate them.  So, yes, you have the freedom to write anything you like – but the consequences of that choice will be reflected in your marks.”

Which brings me to the quandary I found myself in this week when I became embroiled in a free speech fiasco.

I have been writing for Online Opinion for a few months now.  I greatly appreciate the opportunity it provides to get my message out to a much wider audience.  I enjoy writing for my blog, and I love my readers and subscribers but, ultimately, in my own little corner of the blogosphere, I’m preaching to the converted.  Graham Young, the founder and editor of Online Opinion has been very generous in publishing my work, even though he disagrees, personally, with many of my arguments.  That has not influenced his decision to give me a voice on his forum.

So, when I heard that Graham was being persecuted for publishing an anti-gay marriage article by Catholic conservative, Bill Muehlenberg, I was outraged.  I disagree with everything Muehlenberg said in the article, but, in the cause of free speech, I supported his right to put his point of view, and Graham’s right to publish it.  Muehlenberg’s article is highly selective, makes some ridiculously broad assumptions and is clearly biased.  On the other hand, it is reasonably well written and, while being critical of what he sees as homosexuals’ proclivity for infidelity, he doesn’t (in my view) directly vilify GLBTI people, either as individuals or as a group.

The story I heard, initially, was that someone had taken offence at the article, complained to some of the advertisers on the site (specifically IBM and ANZ) and that these companies had removed their ads – at significant financial cost to Online Opinion.

Impulsively, I contacted Graham and offered my support.  I also did a quick survey of articles about same-sex marriage on Online Opinion and found that pro-gay articles far outnumbered anti-gay articles.  There was no question of anti-gay bias.

Graham then made me aware of an article about the incident on the gay online journal, SX.  The story suggested the problem was not so much Muehlenberg’s article, as Graham’s failure to remove an offensive comment, by ‘Shintaro’ on another article which suggested that gays should either stay in the closet or be murdered.  Graham protested that he hadn’t removed the comment because it had been taken out of context.  He provided me with the link and I satisfied myself that the person who posted it was not advocating violence at all; he was pro-gay and anti-violence and the comment was intended to show where the anti-gay rhetoric in the discussion could lead.

Now, in high dudgeon at the injustice of it all, I posted a comment on SX defending Graham and Online Opinion and I wrote an email to a number of influential bloggers and columnists suggesting that they join me by writing in Graham’s defence.

Graham emailed back saying, in effect, “Nice email, but the facts are wrong.”

It seems that in my rush to play the part of Crusader Rabbit,  I hadn’t done my homework on the issue thoroughly enough, and Graham had (quite rightly) assumed that I had.  The advertising, it seems,  wasn’t lost because of the comment mentioned on SX, it was withdrawn because of another comment altogether.  This comment read:

“It’s interesting that so many people are offended by the truth. The fact is that homosexual activity is anything but healthy and natural. Certain lgbt’s want their perversion to be called “normal” and “healthy” and they’ve decided the best way to do this is have their “marriages” formally recognised. But even if the law is changed, these “marriages” are anything but healthy and natural. It is, in fact, impossible for these people to be married, despite what any state or federal law may say.”

Posted by MrAnderson, Thursday, 25 November 2010 10:09:39 AM

A gay reader brought the comment to Graham’s attention and asked for the reference to the ‘perversion’ of LGBT people to be removed.  Although Graham did not agree with the remark, he felt that it was a view which was commonly expressed among a minority of Australians, which did not incite violence, and which would have been acceptable (if widely condemned) in a parliamentary debate.  Given his commitment to free speech, Graham refused to delete it.

Having been rebuffed by Graham, the reader then decided to complain to the site’s advertisers.  Someone within IBM (it is not clear whether it was the same person) also complained to their management.  As a result, IBM and the ANZ decided to withdraw their advertising from Online Opinion and a number of other advertisers followed.  Sadly, as Online Opinion is part of an advertising co-operative, this meant that other bloggers also lost a substantial amount of their income, despite having nothing to do with Graham’s editorial decisions.

Now I was in a quandary.  In fact, I felt like I’d been hit with a ton of bricks.  All day I’d been sending supportive emails to Graham and shouting loudly from my ‘freedom of speech’ soap-box.  He thought I was an ally.  I thought I was an ally!  Now I realized I’d gone off half-cocked and, with this new information to hand, I felt I couldn’t defend Graham’s actions.  I felt sick, conflicted and embarrassed.  OK, I felt stupid.  I’d emailed all these people and said ‘stand up for freedom of speech!’  Now, if I was to be true to my own moral compass, I was going to have to write back to them and say, “Given new information to hand, I’m no longer standing up for free speech.”  I wished that a large black hole would just open up and consume me right then and there.

When I told Graham that I could no longer speak out publicly in his defence, he said I didn’t understand what free speech means.  Perhaps he was right.  I support free speech within limits, but not untrammeled free speech.  Perhaps that’s a terrible cop-out.  Perhaps it is ideologically unsound.  All I know is that every ethical atom of my being was screaming at me that I couldn’t defend the right of anyone to call a gay person perverted.  Nor could I support the decision not to delete a comment which was not only highly offensive, but, given the weight of expert medical and sociological opinion, patently untrue.

In a submission on Freedom of Religion and Belief, prepared for the Human Rights Commission in 2008, I wrote about the impact of these kinds of derogatory comments on GLBTI people – particularly adolescents.

I researched the high incidence of suicide in the gay community.  I quoted from the diary of young Bobby Griffith, who, at 20 years old, threw himself from an overpass into the path of a semi-trailer.  Before his suicide, Bobby wrote:

I can’t ever let anyone find out that I’m not straight. It would be so humiliating. My friends would hate me. They might even want to beat me up. And my family? I’ve overheard them….They’ve said they hate gays, and even God hates gays, too. Gays are bad, and God sends bad people to hell. It really scares me when they talk that way because now they are talking about me.

Bobby had been made to believe he was a pervert – and he just couldn’t live with that.

The experience of being gay in Australia is movingly expressed in the following internet post from Australian, Phill Herbert:

From twink to date I have continually endured the expressed condemnation by the dominant voices in organized religion. I have seen young Gay people being tortured by their religious backgrounds, their alienation from family and significant others, their drop in esteem, their self harm at both emotional and physical levels. Indeed I have known young people to tragically take their own lives as a result of this alienation and resultant self perception.  … History and the dominant contemporary voice of organized religion has maintained a line of ill informed and ultimately damaging shit that has persisted not only over decades, but millenniums …How many people have died, had their careers destroyed, had their health and self perception compromised by the utterances of those like Ratzinger/Pell/Jenkins … I maintain my right to rage …

In similar vein, Peter Taylor, a gay member of the Atheist Foundation of Australia, reminded me that it is not only young gay, lesbian and transgender people who suffer the effects of discrimination.  In an email to our submission team, Taylor wrote:

… It is good that you are writing about youth suicides, but don’t forget adult suicides. Single gay men, especially the elderly are killing themselves by drinking too much to dull the pain. There are no statistics, of course, because it’s not called suicide, it’s called liver and kidney malfunction.

Words are weapons.  The word ‘perversion’ in one comment on one article on one online journal may seem infinitesimal in the barrage of hate to which homosexuals are subjected throughout their lives.  But the word is still a bullet in the assault on gays and, while, on the battle-field that is a gay person’s life, there may also be cannon-fire and bombs exploding and a million trillion bullets being fired simultaneously, that doesn’t make that one, lone bullet any less lethal.

It is no longer acceptable to call black people ‘niggers’.  If that word had been used in a comment on Online Opinion I expect it would have been deleted.  I wonder whether Graham would have permitted a comment which referred to women (generically) as sluts.  If neither of these are admissible, why should it be OK to refer to homosexuality as a perversion?  Perhaps there is a rationale for this – but I can’t think of one.

It seems that, while Graham is admirably committed to maximising free speech on the site, he also (reluctantly) accepts that he can’t allow open slather or chaos would reign.  Comments are moderated, so, clearly, some speech is not allowed.  This equivocation seems, to me, to result in a lack of firm and clear guidelines which make it appear to his critics that Graham’s moderation is ad hoc and inconsistent.  This leaves Graham open to accusations of bias (of which I am genuinely sure he is not guilty).  Other forums are prepared to compromise on untrammeled free speech and make it clear that personal attacks, sexist, racist or homophobic remarks will not be published.  Online Opinion’s rules of engagement are much less clearly defined.  This makes the moderation decisions confusing for those who are participating.

This is not an attack on Graham. I believe he edits Online Opinion and moderates the forum with a good heart and with a firm commitment to free speech and freedom of the press.  What I wish to suggest is that, while pure ideology is all well and good in theory, it cannot exist in its pure state when exposed to the murky waters of human nature and free enterprise.

As other bloggers have pointed out, Graham’s freedom to publish what he wants and moderate his forum as he wishes have not been quashed.  He has not had his internet rights revoked.  He hasn’t been thrown in jail.  He is not being threatened by a mob of gay activists outside his house waving flaming torches and brandishing pitchforks.  No legislation has been put in place to prevent him from seeking advertising to support the site.  What has happened is that his admirable commitment to the principle of free speech has alienated at least some of his readership.  In turn, some advertisers bowed to pressure from those offended readers and withdrew their support for the site.  It may be an over-reaction.  It may be short-sighted.  It may, perversely, hurt the very customers they are trying to appease.  But, ultimately, it is an advertiser’s right to place their money where they see fit.  Online Opinion needs them – they don’t need it.

The fact is that, just like my first-year university students, Graham made a choice to run his site his way and he found that choice has consequences.  To an extent, he placed ideology above an, apparently, large and influential segment of his audience and above the concerns of the advertisers who supplied his income. In business terms, I’d say he lost touch with an important segment of his market. By refusing to compromise his commitment to free speech, Graham suffered the consequences of that choice.  To my mind, while principles are important – and there should be a point beyond which you will not compromise those principles – you simply can’t run a business without also considering the wants and needs of your ‘customers’ and financiers.  Regrettably, those wants and needs may not always be as pure as yours.  This is the ‘deal with the devil’ you do when you cease to write, or publish, for your own entertainment and undertake it as a business enterprise.  You don’t get to call all the shots any more and, if you ignore the views of those who make your business prosper, you’re likely to pay the price.

The pity is, this doesn’t just effect Graham Young.  Online Opinion is not just a blog.  It’s a business (whether profitable or not).  It’s also an important resource for people, like me, who want to have our voices heard. Perversely, it’s also important for me to be able to  hear opinions like Muehlenberg’s so I know what we’re up against. I understand that Online Opinion is also seen as a valuable source of information for the public service.  My friend, Chris, writes policy for a government minister and is required to read Online Opinion as part of her job.  Her department sees it as an important tool for keeping in touch with grass-roots public opinion.

If Online Opinion folds through lack of funds, Graham Young is not the only person who will suffer the loss.  It will be a loss to the whole Australian community.  Is it really worth losing such a valuable resource in order to protect the freedom of a minority of uninformed bigots to spout their hatred in public?

As one contact wrote to me today:

I used to subscribe to OLO but discovered I’m not emotionally strong enough to read strident, vitriolic idiocy about everything from climate change to population, chaplains to mining. I know that having a place for people to let off steam is healthy, but this reacquaintance with OLO has confirmed my aversion.

While the articles on Online Opinion are of a consistently high quality (Muehlenberg’s may be a notable exception!) the tone of its discussion forum has been noted by some online commentators (and some of my own contacts) as a deterrent to visiting the site.  To some, it seems to have been hijacked by a small group of regular posters.  To me, they seem like a particularly virulent version of the Muppet’s Waldorf and Statler, howling abuse at the article writers (and each other) from the dress circle.  After my second Online Opinion article I felt like I’d been thrown into a pit of ravenous lions.  I’d never thought of writing as a blood sport!  When I complained, Graham responded, “You think that’s bad?  You should see what they do to me!”

I am not saying that Graham’s decision in this matter was wrong.  How can you condemn anyone for sticking to their principles, even when under siege?  No, I am simply saying that I hold a different view.  This matter is too complex to be argued in terms of right or wrong, black or white.

It is, however, my personal view that, while, in theory,  untramelled free speech is admirable, when the act of maintaining the purity of that ideal leads to a toxic atmosphere in the forum, alienates your readers, discourages good writers, frightens off your advertisers and threatens your whole enterprise, I think it’s time to reconsider whether sticking steadfastly to ideology is worth the cost.  And, when words are used as weapons against a vulnerable minority, I think it’s time to consider whether free speech is more important than people’s lives and human dignity.

Chrys Stevenson

Contribute to Online Opinion:

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Related Articles

Graham Young’s account of the incident and an appeal for new financial backers.

You want our ads? Keep your opinions to yourself by Graham Young on ABC’s The Drum

Oversensitivity can only compromise debate by Christopher Pearson, The Australian

Controversy in the Australian Blogosphere by Peter Black

Of  secondary boycotts, free speech … and revenue by Skeptic Lawyer

Free speech and corporate interests by Mitch Sullivan

I took part in the 10:23 Challenge on Saturday, 5 February 2011.  The aim was to highlight the inefficacy of homeopathy by taking a mass overdose of homeopathic sleeping pills.

I’ve written about my experience on Online Opinion.

But, as an added bonus for my readers and subscribers, my friend Raphael Fraser (aka @Tsuken) recommends this for your viewing pleasure:

And here is the gorgeous Jason Ball talking about the 10:23 Challenge  in Melbourne. (Brisbane was similar but we weren’t anywhere near as nattily kitted out!)

And, finally, this brilliant find from Dr Ben Goldacre’s Posterous blog:  Homeopaths are at their most amusing when they’re being honest with each other.  A lobbying email sent within the British homeopathic community:

===============

Dear EVERYONE,

This is urgent. TOP PRIORITY!!!  The deadline is the 18th of February. The practice of homeopathy by lay homeopaths is at stake, and if the MHRA changes the wording to the document mentioned below, we will not be allowed to practice any longer. This will take effect immediately.  The new wording which is being suggested by sense against science, and is being considered by the MHRA will effectively put us in catch 22 so that we can no longer give out remedies – basically, it is about the difference between dispensing and prescribing.  all homeopaths dispense remedies as a normal part of daily practice. the new rules will mean that it will be illegal to dispense without a license, and only a qualified doctor can make a prescription.  without the ability to dispense, all we can do is sit and listen to people’s problems, but can do nothing else about it.  this will also have an affect on the homeopathic pharmacies, who will only be allowed to dispense licensed remedies (currently, only arnica and possibly one or two others are licensed) unless prescribed by a physician, and this means the potential loss of thousands of remedies.  The key words in the version we want, which help keep homeopathy going are   “…use within the homeopathic tradition”.  This avoids the need to prove the science behind prescribing of remedies and allows us to practise as normal.

 

Chrys Stevenson

Book Recommendations

Gladly hates his honey diluted, but reckons homeopathic sugar pills don’t taste too bad.

If you’re interested in reading more about homeopathy and alternative medicines Gladly recommends the following from our friends at Embiggen Books.

Trick or Treatment  – Alternative Medicine on Trial by Simon Singh and Edzard Ernst

The Whole Story – Alternative Medicine on Trial by Toby Murcott

Bad Science by Ben Goldacre

Snake Oil and Other Preoccupations by John Diamond

Science Meets Alternative Medicine: What the Evidence Says about Unconventional Treatments by Wallace Sampson; Lewis Vaughn

Bad Medicine: Misconceptions and Misuses Revealed, From Distance Healing to Vitamin O by Christopher Wanjek

My regular readers may recall that, in December, Father Tim Moyle, a Catholic priest, wrote an open letter to atheists, Dear Atheists: Why the Long Face?

Father Moyle believes we atheists are angry because we, “… will never experience ultimate justice, peace or love” and “… cannot look past the annihilation in death.”

I responded here, saying, “Has it never occurred to you, Father Moyle, that we atheists get angry because you religious types give us a whole lot to get angry about?”

After detailing the religious behaviour which gets us riled up, I  concluded:

“… in short, Father, if you’re looking for the cause of atheist anger, you need not look very far.  Simply open the door of your Church, take off your theistic blinkers and take a good, hard look inside.”

Prompted by this exchange of blog posts, Doug Steley of Victoria (Australia) decided to contact Father Moyle personally.  The following article details Doug’s response to Father Moyle’s hypothesis about atheist anger and documents the correspondence which followed.

I’m delighted to welcome Doug as a guest blogger on Gladly, the Cross-Eyed Bear.

 

Preaching by The Book? My Correspondence with Father Tim Moyle

by Doug Steley

I am in the midst of an interesting exchange of emails with a Catholic Priest in Canada by the name of Father Tim Moyle.

Father Tim posted an article on why atheists like myself are angry.

I have to admit I found it curious that someone who appears to have been a life-long, very devout Christian like Fr Tim would know much about how atheists think,  but he professed to be an expert on the subject so who am I to disbelieve him?

So, I documented the reasons why I had become an atheist and why I was still angry –  angry at religion, and somewhat angry at life I guess –  and why I am certainly angry with people who try to tell me things that are not true.

This is the email I sent the priest, edited slightly as on re-reading it there were sections that weren’t well written.  (As a dyslexic, I still have problems reading and writing.)

Hi Father Tim

I recently read your blog on why we atheists are angry and I must admit you put a slant on this I had not considered before.

I have been an atheist for the last 25 years after 25 years as a Christian so, unlike you, I think I possibly have more of a perspective about these things.

In my short life I have seen a fair amount of death. I have quite often been in life threatening situations as both a Christian and an atheist and, I have to admit, that there is very little difference when you are seconds away from death.

I am neither angry at death nor particularly afraid of it.  I know my death is inevitable and I just plan to live as long as I can (and remain useful to society) and to die, hopefully, as peacefully and as pain free as I can.

I would also at this point say that this is pretty common amongst my atheist friends.

May I ask you one of the questions that I have asked for decades now and which is one of the main points of my becoming an atheist?

I would really appreciate your answer on this.

As I said, I was born into a  Christian family. I am also severely disabled with dyslexia and could barley read or write until I was 20.  At school, I was regularly beaten for being stupid and lazy and abused by the good Christian teachers and other students because I came from a broken home (that was unusual and shameful in the 1960s) and because I could not cope with my school work.

At night, I would regularly and earnestly pray that I would be able to learn my lessons and be a good student or that my teachers would understand that I was trying and not cane me.  This never happened and I continued to be a poor student and I continued to be caned and strapped for my mistakes. I was also abused and beaten for being a liar. I would be accused of not studying and of not doing my homework because my grades were so poor. If I lied and said that I had not studied I was hit for not doing what I was told. If I told the truth and said I had studied as hard as I could, I would be hit for telling lies. There was no way to escape this.

Before you say, “God does not give us any more than we can cope with”  here, I did have two close friends at school in similar situations. One committed suicide because he could no longer cope with the abuse and the other has spent her life in and out of mental institutions.

Anyway, the question that has kept arising in my mind for many years now is:

If someone eventually loses their faith after years of abuse at the hands of Christians and after earnestly praying for help from God and Jesus both as a child and later as an adult to no avail;

If that person then rejects religion and says “There is no God or at least no God I would care to praise”,  then is that person doomed to hell for eternity according to the Bible’s scriptures?

If a person abuses an innocent child so badly that they lose their faith and suffer physical and mental harm, but that person asks for the  forgiveness of Jesus and prays for their own salvation, why are they then promised eternity in the paradise of heaven according to the Bible?

As you can see, I have quite a personal interest in your reply. I have studied the Bible for many years, both as a Christian and as an atheist, and, so far, the only scriptural answer I can read is the abused will go to hell and the abuser to heaven.

I cannot see how this can in anyway be called justice or love, and this is one of the reasons I left the church and religious beliefs behind.

I must admit, in the 25 years since I left I have been happier and had far better friends than I ever did as a believer.

Anyway, thank you for your time, I hope you have a safe and happy Christmas season, I look forward to hearing from you perhaps in the New Year.

Doug

His answer arrived quite quickly, within a few days, and full of good cheer, confidence and platitudes and I must admit it was somewhat surprising in its sweeping challenge  to the teachings of the Bible as I understood it.

Doug,

Short answer:  No. People who have suffered as you have and lost your faith as a result are not destined for hell. Live a good life, love the people in it and then trust in the providence of a loving and forgiving God who understands abuse, pain and suffering too. As to the ‘God doesn’t give us more than we can handle line’… if that were true, why do psychiatrists and therapists have such a good business? Why do people suicide? Clearly the events of life are capable of crushing us and this has nothing to do with God. Remember our faith teaches us that he is not the only spiritual power at work on the earth.

May you be blessed with a Christmas of peace, love and joy!

Thanks for writing.

Fr. Tim

Could this be true? Atheists and unbelievers who live a good life will be welcomed into heaven and true Christians who have followed the faith and asked forgiveness are punished?  This was pretty amazing stuff and bordering on the heretical.  It sure went against everything I had been taught in the Bible that no sin was too great to be forgiven if someone believed and asked forgiveness –  as any Christian must regularly do  – and that people were only saved and granted access to heaven by their faith,  not by any good works.  No faith, no belief, no heaven!

I immediately sent back an email questioning the scriptural validity of these comments and got this reply:

Doug:

Sorry. Can’t help you with this one due to time constraints (next 72 hrs  Christmas are kind of hectic for priests). It is Catholic teaching however and I could refer to the Catechism if you like and send you the references.

Logic itself should be enough though to validate the point I am making. No one can know the state of mind/heart/soul of another before God. We cannot judge what is in one’s soul if when they get to the end of their rope, they lack the grace, strength or capacity to go on. I simply do not believe in a God that would punish someone for all eternity simply because the trials and struggles of life became too heavy for them to bear. Exempting those who commit existential suicide – no rational person would willingly choose to end their life if they could see another path to relief. Does this not demonstrate in itself that they are suffering from an illness of the heart/mind/soul – especially if they follow through with ending their life? If God will not deny someone eternal life because they died of a physical illness, why would he do so for someone that suffers an illness of the spirit?

Fr. Tim

Ah ha! Logic!  The Catholic Church was using LOGIC to define the word of God Almighty!  This was, indeed, a new and interesting turn of events.  Here, I must admit, I don’t know much about the Catechisms.  I am not a Catholic, but I was interested to see what he had to say, so I waited until the New Year and reminded him of his offer to send the Biblical and Catechism references he referred to.  Unfortunately, this time there had been a lot of his parishioners die from the cold and he was busy.  Could I remind him later in the week?  As requested, I waited and replied, reminding him of his promise.

To that email I have had no reply as yet and I am getting the feeling that I never will.

I will continue to ask questions of Fr Tim. If he is willing to make sweeping statements then I am happy to discuss the issues with him.

Sadly, as I often find in such discussions, Christians are more than willing to make such sweeping comments but, when asked to defend their comments and back up their statements, they suddenly find they are busy with other things or fall silent. I do note that Fr Tim has found time to keep his blog updated and posted many new comments and items since our discussion began.  He has time to spread God’s word to those who don’t ask questions.

But, when it comes to one small voice asking questions, he falls silent.

Odd?

Doug Steley

Postscript: Since he wrote this article several days ago, Doug has received further correspondence from Father Moyle – none of which, according to Doug,  provides Biblical references for Father Moyle’s assertion that God would not deny access to heaven for an atheist who lost their faith as a result of psychological or physical abuse by his earthly representatives.

In Father Moyle’s defence, despite having some strange ideas about atheists, he seems like a nice, intelligent  guy who has constructed an image of ‘God’ which is completely at odds with the deity which (allegedly) speaks through the Old and New Testaments.

It seems that in order to cope with the cognitive dissonance Father Moyle has done what, ultimately, any intelligent, rational Christian must do – abandon or creatively interpret scripture so as to create a deity in his own image, with his own sense of fairness, logic and reason.  And that, Father Moyle, is exactly our point.

Chrys Stevenson

We have known for some time that state schools, throughout Australia, have been breaching Education Department guidelines in respect to religious education (i.e. instruction) classes and that politicians and bureaucrats have shown little interest in policing this area.

I regularly receive emails from irate parents who have found that, having opted their child out of RE, their wishes have been ignored – usually discovered when their child comes home and starts spouting Scripture, or worrying that her non-church-going parents are destined to burn in hell.

Today, comes a story from the Daily Telegraph:

Parents at three schools on the [NSW] South Coast complained after their children were forced to listen in on religious lessons, despite having opted out of the classes.

The Department of Education and Training started investigating after the Ulladulla High School’s final newsletter last year said that students in years 7 and 8 “will sit in a section of the classroom” where scripture was taught, “so minimal supervision can take place safely”.

The newsletter also said students could opt out of actively taking part in the lessons only in the first few weeks of the new school year.

After objections from some parents, the department said it would contact the schools to ensure parents and students were aware of the policy.

…  Nowra High School principal Wayne Pryce said yesterday students who opted out still sat in on the lessons because there wasn’t “enough staff for supervision”.

Batemans Bay High School has had an arrangement for several years whereby non-religious students remained in the classroom while scripture was being taught.

The Australian Secular Lobby said that, given the ease with which the schools had breached NSW policy, the department should notify all schools of their obligations.”

Now, you might consider it possible that one principal was unaware of Education Department guidelines, but three?  And the article notes that this arrangement was put in place after all three consulted together.  Really?  And not one said, “Ummm, guys, I don’t think we’re allowed to do that – maybe we should check with the Department.” ?

So, call me suspicious, but I was already thinking that the real reason that parents’ rights were completely disregarded in this matter was less administrative (lack of available supervision) and more theological (convert the little heathen blighters against their parents’ will).  And it’s not just non-religious kids we’re talking about here.  I’d be willing to bet there are kids from non-Christian religions in these schools being forced to sit in on Christian religious education classes as well.  Let’s put aside the assault on secularism for a moment – this is outright Christian imperialism.

Don’t believe me? Check this out. Imagine if you were the parent of the Muslim child encouraged to act against her parent’s wishes and faith in this video.

And then someone sent me this – from SRE teachers in the same school district (Illawarra).

“Pray for year 8 & 9 classes today, especially for the students who have not attended SRE before and who will be bringing their own work to do in class. Pray that they will be quiet and that they will hear God’s message as Bernie teaches the other students. Pray for Holy Spirit annointing, power and authority on Bernie.”  Link

Being a born cynic (or should that be born-again cynic) , I’m expecting this post to be ‘disappeared’ once they realize that what they’re doing proves that opted out students are being targeted for conversion.  In fact, being a born cynic, I’ve taken a screenshot of the page for posterity. (Click to enlarge)  (My friend Dan has ensured that the rest of the site is similarly enshrined.)

Click to enlarge

Update: As predicted, all the ‘prayers’ on this website have been deleted – I’ll take that as an admission of guilt.  If they had said nothing wrong, why delete them?  But don’t worry boys, if you decide you want to put them back, we have copies.  And if there’s any media, or parents with lawsuits in mind who’d like copies, we’re willing to share. 😉

Non-religious and non-Christian parents with children in NSW State Schools should be rightly horrified to hear that when they send their children to (supposedly) secular state schools, they are being strategically targeted by evangelistic Christian zealots.  Not only that, the SRE teachers are canvassing to have specifically Christian teachers appointed to the school to further influence your children.  Far-fetched? Well, they’ve already managed to have opted-out kids put into their RE class, why wouldn’t a sympathetic principal also agree to practice affirmative action in employing good Christian teachers?

“Praise for the witness of Christian staff, students and volunteers this year. Pray for the appointment of Christian staff for 2011” Link

“Pray for all SRE classes next year, especially year 9 classes, as students will not be allowed to have a free period instead of Scripture. Those students who have notes to exempt them from SRE will have to bring homework or other school work to do in class.” [Emphasis added.] Link

“Praise for God’s ongoing ministry to many non-Christian youth at Ulladulla High School.” [Emphasis added] Link

“Pray especially this week for parents NOT to sign notes excusing their children from
Scripture lessons. Pray for the Holy Spirit’s control over these notes.” Link

And once they have your kids in their class, they’re not above scaring the bejeezus into them:

“Pray for Year 9 students as they talk about “Life After Life”. Bernie will use confronting material from “Ninety Minutes in Heaven” and “Raised from the Dead”. [Emphasis added] Link

“Continue to pray for year 9 as they discuss “Life After Life”. This week they will hear about an atheist’s death experience of hell.” Link

It’s so easy to be complacent.  I remember RE classes, both at state school and at the Presbyterian and Methodist private school I attended.  We had either a doddering old Anglican minister who’d drone on a bit while we doodled on our notebooks, or a deacon who’d give us some Bible passages to read and consider.  There was no sense whatsoever of being evangelised.  But, things are different now and parents have to realize that what their kids are receiving in state schools is almost certainly not religious education, but religious instruction.  They are not being told about religion, they are being told to be religious – and not just religious, but fundamentalist, Bible literalist, happy-clapping, talkin’-in-tongues, fallin’-to-the-floor Christians.

And it’s not just happening in New South Wales.  A Queensland friend told me recently that a child at her school whose father has terminal cancer was told by the school chaplain that her father would burn in hell when he died if he didn’t accept Jesus as his personal saviour.

Another Queensland parent discovered that his infant daughter had been included in RE classes against his will when he took her to feed the ducks in the park.

“Daddy!  You’re going to go to hell!”

“What???? Why????”

“For feeding the body of Christ to the ducks!”

Parents, please be vigilant.  If you’ve opted your child out of RE, make sure your wishes are being complied with. Don’t allow the school to use emotional blackmail to coerce you into changing your mind.  Common excuses are “We don’t have anyone to supervise her …”, “You’re causing a lot of trouble for the teachers,” and “All the other kids go to RE – you’re singling your child out and that can be very emotionally damaging for him.”

Also remember, that if your school has a chaplain you should have been consulted.  If you haven’t been consulted, you have a right to see the application documents sent to the government asking for funding.  If they say that parents were consulted and agreed, you need to make a noise – or contact the Australian Secular Lobby to make a noise for you.

If you are having problems with the unwelcome intrusion of religion into your child’s state school, please contact the Australian Secular Lobby for help and advice.  At the very least, they can log your concerns which helps to combat the inevitable response from Education Departments that this problem ‘isn’t widespread’.  We know it is!

In the meantime, whether or not you’re in New South Wales, and whether or not you’re a parent, please consider writing to the NSW Premier, the Education Minister and the Department of Education and Training with your thoughts on the situation in the Illawarra schools mentioned in the Daily Telegraph article (and the additional information supplied on this blog).   Contact details are as follows:

• premier@nsw.gov.au (NSW Premier)
• office@firth.minister.nsw.gov.au (Minister for Education and Training)
• brian.elliott@det.nsw.edu.au (NSW Department of Education and Training)

Again, if you have your own story to tell, please contact the Australian Secular Lobby.  Your anonymity can be preserved if you fear your child will be victimised due to a complaint.

If you feel strongly that the government should not be funding Christian chaplains in Australian state schools,  (a scheme to which nearly half a billion dollars has either been spent or committed), please consider making a donation to the High Court Challenge against the National School Chaplaincy Program.  This is a serious case which will be heard before the High Court later this year, possibly in May.  More details are available on the website.

And, finally, when it comes time to complete your 2011 Census,  if you are no longer a practicing Christian, please mark ‘No Religion’ on the form for yourself and your children.  Having accurate statistics of those who aren’t practicing Christians will help secular organizations to argue against the intrusion of religion into our government, educational and other public institutions.

Chrys Stevenson

 

Update

This story just keeps getting worse.  A relative of one of the opted out students at Ulladulla writes on the Victorian Humanists’ website:

“A relative of mine attends Ulladulla High School. Yesterday she (a non-SRE) student was placed in a courtyard and told they must sit (and not move from) an old BBQ table. The table was damp and as is typical for such a design, had planks well spaced so it is most uncomfortable to sit for the entire period. Supervision was provided by a person in the neighbouring classroom. This person was not a qualified teacher but the local pastor running his scripture class. He left the door wide open so all the non-SRE students could enjoy his prosleytizing.

So, despite all the fuss, secular students are still having to listen to religious ranting in their secular schools. This is discrimination.”

I understand this person was Bernie Hughes, the same person mentioned (above)  in prayers for the conversion of opted out students.  Seems Bernie hasn’t learned yet that this isn’t going to go away.  Keep the door closed, Bernie – and for your own good, don’t agree to supervise opted out students – it’s not doing your cause any good.

Another Ulladulla State High School contact wrote to me earlier in the week:

” … today we are all back to Square 1 it seems. The school continues to claim it is working on changing its policy towards non-SRE students and that it has implemented changes and the Big Wigs in the NSW Education Dept (David Ashford and Maria Grey- Pearce) claim Ulladulla High School has fallen into line with the NSW policies and Act.

However in actuality, today’s non-SRE students ended up in a deserted derelict area of the school in the rain for non-SRE (this is the apparently newly arranged area) and when they went searching for a teacher (these are Yr 7 kids who have only been at High school for 6 days – plus a swimming carnival) they ended up being invited back into the SRE room to partake in the Scripture lesson.

When they protested that they shouldn’t be there, they were sent to the Deputy Principal who assumed they were there for punishment (and made some comment to the effect that “good that they weren’t” – initial presumption being that they were all of course in trouble for something). He then led them to a deserted stairwell in the school for them to sit for the period. He came back 10 mins later to check the roll and then wasn’t seen again for the remaining 40 mins.

The Yr 7 girls were not at all happy being in a deserted area of the school between demountables and with no supervision. The school is in the midst of major building work, it is heavily treed and has many dark isolated areas. ”

Not good enough!

 

Related Articles

South Coast Public School Kids Unable to Opt Out of Scripture Classes – ABC Illawarra

Religiously follow the rules, or catch the church in bed with state – Richard Ackland, Sydney Morning Herald

Peter Kirkwood has reviewed The Australian Book of Atheism in today’s edition of The Australian. Here’s an extract:

While in agreement with much of his argument for atheism and his criticism of religion, I often find his tone alienating. When he’s in strident anti-religion mode, his rhetoric is tinged with the same sort of fundamentalist fervour he finds so abhorrent in his religious opponents. So I approached this book with some trepidation, but I was pleasantly surprised. It is very readable and, for the most part, reasonable in tone. And it’s enlightening both in the content of individual essays and in the wide range of voices and points of view expressed.”

You can read the whole review here.

To say we’re delighted with the review would be a huge understatement.  Our deep and abiding thanks to all of those who have inspired and supported Warren and me and the other contributors and editors through the writing and production process.  And a special thanks, of course, to our publisher, Scribe, who showed such faith in us.

We are so proud of this book and absolutely delighted that it’s receiving such a positive reception from both readers and reviewers.

Chrys Stevenson

The Australian Book of Atheism is available online from Embiggen Books and from all good bookstores, including Borders, Readings, ABC Shops, Mary Ryan and others.

Received today from the High Court Challenge team:

Ron Williams v. Commonwealth of Australia

Queensland parent challenges constitutional validity of Commonwealth funded National School Chaplaincy Program (NSCP) in the High Court

A Queensland parent has issued writs in the High Court against the Commonwealth Government and Scripture Union Queensland, alleging the Government has breached the Australian Constitution through its funding of a chaplain at his children’s school.

Mr Ron Williams, the father of four children attending a public school in Toowoomba, argues that Commonwealth funding of the school’s chaplain breaches sections 54 and 116 of the Constitution.

The chaplain is funded under the National Schools Chaplaincy Program (NSCP), which has provided places for 2700 chaplains in schools throughout Australia.

Mr Williams argues that the Commonwealth Government failed to follow the proper constitutional requirements in funding the NSCP, and in its agreement with Scripture Union to place a chaplain at his children’s school.

The Government failed to provide the necessary legislative appropriation provisions required by section 54 of the Constitution.

Mr Williams also argues that the NSCP requires those appointed to the public office of school chaplain at his children’s school are subject to the requirement to a religious test.

That is, they must be practising Christians, regulated and trained by Scripture Union. This, he says, breaches section 116 of the Constitution which states that ‘no religious test shall be required as a qualification for any office or public test under the Commonwealth’.

Counsel retained by Horowitz and Bilinsky to represent Mr. Williams are Mr. Bret Walker SC and Mr. Gerald Ng.

This solo constitutional challenge by Mr. Williams is receiving financial support via a public appeal to individuals at his High Court Challenge website: highcourtchallenge.com.

Related Posts on this Blog:

Heroic or Quixotic:  The High Court Challenge Against Australia’s National School Chaplaincy Program

A Case Against School Chaplaincy – Part One:  A Fox in the Henhouse

A Case Against School Chaplaincy – Part Two:  Russian Roulette

A Case Against School Chaplaincy – Part Three:  Gay Teens at Risk from School Chaplaincy

Related Posts (Elsewhere)

David Marr (2011), Chaplains in schools are ‘inadequately supervised’, Sydney Morning Herald, 1 January

With God by their Side, Sydney Morning Herald, 30 October 2010

Jim Campbell (2010), Dad fights chaplaincy program, Queensland Times, 28 October

Compass (2010), Challenging the Chaplains (video), ABC Television, 24 October

Michael Bachelard (2010), Chaplains in Schools Challenged, The Age, 5 September

Cannold, Leslie (2010), Why are we robbing our littlies to preach Paul?, Sydney Morning Herald, 16 August

Kate Dennehy (2010), ‘God botherers’ infiltrate Brisbane high school, Brisbane Times, 15 August

Caroline Overington (2008), Genesis of a Complaint, The Australia, 5 December

Donations

Money is tight for everyone, but even by making a small contribution to the High Court Challenge you are buying a stake in Australian constitutional history.

Please note that this case is being financed by the Williams family and by public subscription.  Monies paid towards the High Court Challenge will go into a trust set aside expressly for the payment of the considerable legal fees associated with a case of this kind.  If you are able to donate, please visit the High Court Challenge website.  Donations, whether small or large, can be made by cheque or money order, direct deposit, or by PayPal using the link on the website.

Chrys Stevenson

Dear Father Moyle

In your recent open letter to atheists you ask, “Why is it that so many in the atheist community cannot bring themselves to get past their anger whenever they engage in discussion about religion?”  You complain that, “The language of many of [the] atheist contributions in public debate is laced with venom and dripping with sarcasm, ”  and you wonder why comments from atheists so often depict the religious as being “‘malicious’ or ‘venomous’”.  Maybe I can provide some answers.

In your letter, you explain that, because Christians and other religious people are oriented towards a “culture of life and light that ends with the gift of eternal life” venom is not a part of the theistic arsenal.

While you do pause to consider whether the sins of the Catholic Church and various clergy may play some role in our aggravation, you quickly brush this thought aside as if 2000 years of clerical transgressions matter little when compared with those halcyon times when the church stood as a ‘paragon of grace’ through its ‘faithful ministry’.  Ultimately, you conclude,  atheists’ irritability must be caused by our self-imposed nihilistic view of life.  To be sure, we non-believers stew on the petty injustices of the Church because we don’t understand that all these sins will be sorted out later, in heaven.  In contrast, all those happy, smiling Christians are so beatifically joyful, good-humoured and just plain Christ-like, because they they know any earthly injustices will be set right in the world hereafter. (Don’t worry about the children dying in the Sudan folks – God will sort it out later.)

To begin with, Father Moyle, if you really want to know why we atheists are cranky, may I direct you to Greta Christina’s blog post Atheists and Anger .  Greta Christina provides a comprehensive laundry list of things you religious folk do that really annoy us.  I shall follow, soon, with my own.

In your letter,  you skip over the sins of the church and the clergy as if they were nothing more serious than an old village vicar nicking the odd glass of altar wine or shrieking, “Jesus, Joseph & Mary” when he stubs his toe.  I really hate to give credence to your stereotyping of atheists as angry and sarcastic, but may I suggest that any human being who isn’t angry at some of the following sins of the church needs more than a quick confession and a few Hail Mary’s to save them.

It’s hard to imagine, I know, but we atheists get really upset that the Catholic Church’s prohibition on condoms results in thousands of needless deaths from AIDS in Africa and South America.  Having no belief in an afterlife we find it outrageous that the church thinks it’s perfectly alright to sacrifice the lives, health and financial viability of vulnerable women and children in order to prop up a Papal proclamation.

We also get inexplicably annoyed when little children are frightened by stories of demons, hellfire and damnation.

Forgive us for being grumpy, but, for us, it’s a natural reaction when he hear of parents allowing their sick children to die agonizing and unnecessary deaths because they believe, quite literally, that prayers, not medicine will effect a cure.

Has it never occurred to you, Father Moyle, that we atheists get angry because you religious types give us a whole lot to get angry about?

My friend, Terry, recently spoke publicly for the first time about how he was savagely beaten repeatedly by his religious father who was simply doing as the ‘Good Book’ directed him.  Spare the rod and spoil the child.  This fifty-something man cried as he talked about his brutal upbringing in a family that put all their efforts into obeying the word of God.

“He who spareth the rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him correcteth him betimes” (Proverbs 13:24)

“Withhold not correction from a child: for if thou strike him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and deliver his soul from hell.” (Proverbs 23:13-14)

Just last night, a Facebook friend posted forlornly, “… no one lets an Atheist join in any reindeer games … 😦 ”

It turns out his whole family of warm-hearted Christians had gathered for a pre-Christmas celebration just 15 minutes from where he lives – but chose to exclude him because of his atheism.  Perhaps he should be grateful that his parents only break his heart by excluding him from family gatherings.  If they followed the Bible religiously, they’d be breaking his bones with a good stoning (as directed in Deuteronomy 21:18:21).

My friend Helen’s husband insisted that, in accordance with scripture, his  family obey him as unquestioningly as he obeyed God.  When his adult daughter wished to date someone outside the church, she was evicted.   Helen was then instructed to treat her daughter as if she were dead.  When Helen disobeyed this directive, she, too, was cast out onto the street. She is now forbidden from seeing her other children and has never met her grand-children.

Another friend, Bill, is in his late 50s.  He is still so traumatized by sexual abuse by the Christian brothers at his Catholic school that even discussing it makes him physically ill.  It may be true that those who abused him were not acting in accordance with the Church’s teachings, but the Church has consistently covered  up such  transgressions, leaving thousands of lives destroyed.

You complain, Father, about ‘grumpy’ atheists and their verbal spats with Christians.  How do you compare this with the ‘grumpy’ Catholic nun who beat David Lane, a child with spina bifida, with a pair of scissors for the sin of telling a childish lie?  How do we grumpy atheists compare with the good Christian carers at the Catholic orphanage whose treatment of one child was so appalling that, at 80,  his single good memory of his childhood is that someone brought him a glass of milk, once, when he was six?

You might argue, Father, that these transgressions were human, and not the fault of the Church.  And yet your Church consistently covered up physical and sexual abuse, your Pope enjoined those who reported sexual abuse to keep it secret.  Now, thanks to Wikileaks, we know that the Vatican used its diplomatic immunity to try to thwart the inquiry into systematic sex abuse in the Irish church.  Indeed, the whole self-protective machinery of the Catholic church, worldwide, has functioned to protect the church from scandal – even if that allows abusers to continue their assaults.

So no, Father Moyle, these things do not fade into insignificance when compared with those mythical times when the church has been a ‘paragon of grace’.  I’d certainly like to know when these rare events occurred!  Was it during the witch burnings or the Inquisition, or during the Crusades when the Catholic church was clearly the aggressor? Where was the Church as a ‘paragon of grace’ when Jews were being persecuted in Medieval Europe?   Oh, that’s right, it was the Church that was driving the persecutions.  But, there I am being sarcastic and grumpy again.

Did the Church display itself as a paragon of grace when the Vatican put its support behind Hitler – your clergy even acknowledging the Führer with the familiar salute?

Perhaps you claim that this Camelot of Catholicism occurred in more recent times with the work of Mother Teresa.  Have you read former-nun, Colette Livermore’s account of her experience with the blessed mother?  I think you should.  As a nun with the Sisters of Mercy, Colette found herself, “in a situation where initiative was punished, intelligence was derided, and even saving lives could be punished if it involved a trivial breach of the regulations.”  Colette notes that while the order had money – plenty of money – to buy essential medical and educational supplies, it wasn’t used for this purpose because poverty was glorified above saving lives.

Does withholding medical treatment from dying people make me grumpy, Father?  You bet it does!

And finally, let’s look at those calm, polite, Christians you contrast against us cranky, venomous atheists.  Here are some examples of Christian tolerance and charity for you.  They’re all taken from the website Fundies Say the Darndest Things and are typical of the kind, generous and tolerant postings found on Christian websites:

• [Talking about an eleven year old girl who was raped and then buried alive] – god was sacrificing this child as a way to show others the light. much as he did his own child. what a beautiful gift he has given us.

• If u have sex before marriage then in Gods eyes u are married to that person if a man rapes a woman in Gods eyes they are married it sucks for the girl but what can we do lol

• I honestly don’t care about your rights. If it were up to me, all Atheists would be burnt at the stake and or cast into a river with weights tied to their ankles and or placed before the firing squad, etc etc etc.

• I’d like to make a movie about hell, or somebody ought to, that would be fun. Imagine all the noise and the stench and smoke and the abject squalor and the horrid awful incessant torture, a huge place constructed for a hundred billion hideous people screaming and moaning and gargling their own blood. Meanwhile church folks up in heaven laughing and calling down to the atheists “I told you so.”

And all the toilets in heaven flush into holy divine pipes, and all that poop is piped to hell, where it is heated to 500 degrees and dumped on the atheists. That’s basically what God will have going on for all eternity, and he’ll never get tired of it.

Hot-damn!

Also, Father, if you’re looking for grumpiness, maybe you should compare our vitriolic offerings against those of some of your fellow theists.  For example,  Jason, a member of Theology Web writes:

“Should we kill atheists for there body parts?

What do the other human persons here think?

No doubt someone will object, saying something obviously ridiculous like, but atheists are persons.

But clearly this is mistaken because anybody without a well developed belief in God is obviously not a full human person.

What could be more obvious than that?

How many full human persons do you know without a well developed belief in God. Obviously none, because if they were full human person they would have a well developed belief in God.

Now some people might object to killing atheists for there (and obviously it is there and not thier as they are not whos but whats) organs but think of all the full human persons that would benifit from the organs and the medical research that could be done on these non-persons.

How could anybody object, they are not human persons and if you think we should not kill them then that is just because of out dated ideas and because they must really just want people to suffer. For shame on you!

So what do people think?

Should we kill these atheist human non-persons for the benifit of fully human persons?”

[original spelling preserved]

While Jason explains later that his post was ‘in jest’, another poster, ‘Archimedes’, takes the proposition seriously:

I think Jason’s reasoning is ironclad. If one agrees that fully developed relationship with God is a requisite for personhood, then atheists and agnostics are not persons, and harvesting their bodies for organs is not morally any more suspect than (here it comes) abortion. Of course, the atheists will not consider a relationship with an imaginary being as a necessary component for personhood, but this question wasn’t directed to the cattle at all but rather to theists who agree with Jason’s premise…

Another Christian internet poster, David, says:

I think it’s time for another holocaust. This time, instead of Jews, how about atheists. We urgently need to round up all atheists in the world and lead them to the chambers. Our world would be such a better place.

Please, Father, spare us the remonstration that these people aren’t ‘real Christians’.  They’re real all right and they take their teachings from the very same book you preach from – except they probably don’t cherry pick quite as much as you do.

So, yes, Father, we atheists are grumpy.  We’re grumpy because theists are raping children then covering it up.  We’re grumpy because you exalt a woman who had her own health problems treated  at some of the finest and costliest hospitals in the West, but kept vital medical care from the poorest of the poor because she thought poverty was God-ordained.   We’re grumpy because the Church’s teaching on condoms perpetuates HIV/AIDs and condemns devout Catholic women in third world countries to unwanted pregnancies, poverty and preventable diseases.

In Australia, atheists are grumpy because, in the name of God, vulnerable young women were lured into a Christian treatment programme for sufferers of depression and eating disorders where, instead of medical care, they were subjected to exorcisms.

We’re grumpy because some Australian pregnancy counselling services hide their Christian agendas and tell barefaced lies to their vulnerable clients about how abortions lead to breast cancer.  A claim for which there is not one jot of credible evidence.

We’re grumpy that our elderly relatives cannot choose to die with dignity because your Church uses its money and power to enforce your views on those who don’t share them.

We’re grumpy because your Church’s view on homosexuals fuels homophobia and results in the suicides of teenagers.

We’re grumpy that after centuries of killing, raping, torturing, corruption, sexism and homophobia, churches accumulate massive wealth by accepting tax-exemptions based on the laughable assumption that they are a benefit to society.

I could go on, and on, and on, Father, but I think you may have got my message by now.  Yes, atheists are grumpy and we find it very, very hard to remain civil when people, like you, try to defend an institution which is so stinkingly corrupt and evil that, were it not the Catholic Church, it would have been closed down years ago.

We know that Christians are not necessarily bad people (many of our family members are Christian) but we also know that these people prop up the institutions which cause so much hate and suffering.

Despite your intimations to the contrary, we also know Christians can be every bit as vitriolic, intolerant and hateful as we can – turns out Christians are human too.  We atheists are reminded daily that faith in an after life does not preclude Christians from hateful, nasty, depraved, despicable, intolerant and discriminatory behaviour and invective.

As we have seen, faith in a supernatural deity doesn’t stop people from flying planes into buildings, or from  blowing up abortion clinics, the London underground or a Bali nightclub.  Faith didn’t stop a fervently religious theist from shooting a doctor in cold-blood as he stepped out of his local church.  In fact, in all of these instances it seems, faith and a fervent belief in the afterlife, precipitated these evil actions.

So, in short, Father, if you’re looking for the cause of atheist anger, you need not look very far.  Simply open the door of your Church, take off your theistic blinkers and take a good, hard look inside.

Chrys Stevenson

Related Posts

Greta Christina’s Blog:  Atheists and Anger

Pharyngula: Bad Diagnosis – PZ Myers responds to Tim Moyle

Yahoo7:  An Atheist at Christmas by Australian Skeptics (and http://www.ratbags.com/ )

Thinker’s Podium:  More Atheist Anger

AlterNet:  Why Religious People are Scared of Atheists by Greta Christina

Atheist Nexus Submission to the Australian Human Rights Commission – Freedom of Religion and Belief in the 21st Century – written and researched by Chrys Stevenson in collaboration with the Australian members of Atheist Nexus.

Catholic Bishop Castigates and Threatens Hospital that Saved Woman’s Life by Amy Newman, RH (Reproductive Health) Reality Check

Gladly’s Book Recommendations

Gladly gets madder than a bear with a sore head when people in glass churches throw stones!  If you liked this article you might be interested in reading further from Gladly’s favourite online bookstore, Embiggen Books.

Letter to a Priest by Simone Weil

Hope Endures by Colette Livermore

People in Glass Houses:  An Insider’s Story of a Life In and Out of Hillsong by Tanya Levin

The Australian Book of Atheism by Warren Bonett (editor) [with a contribution from Chrys Stevenson – aka Gladly, the Cross-Eyed Bear]

Holy Horrors:  An Illustrated History of Religious Murder and Madness by James A Haught

Holy Hatred:  Religious Conflicts of the 90s by James A Haught

The Case of the Pope: Vatican Accountability for Human Rights Abuse by Geoffrey Robertson QC

Jesus Freaks:  A True Story of Murder and Madness on the Evangelical Edge by Don Lattin

There are a lot of things I could be doing other than writing blog posts on the internet, researching a book and setting up a national lobby group for reason, secularism and freethought in Australia. Sometimes I wonder, “What the hell am I doing this for?” Then a week like this comes along and the question is answered a hundredfold. Let me explain.

The week started with a tweet from Richard Saunders from the Australian Skeptics. Richard had picked up on an article in the Daily Telegraph [since deleted] spruiking an obviously shonky product called the Qlink Mini which purportedly shields mobile phone users from harmful radiation by resonating with “our body’s energy system” in order to “maintain the strength of naturally occurring protective energy systems within our bodies.” Richard smelled bullshit and so did I, Jason Brown (aka A Drunken Madman) and several others in the Australian skeptical community.

It didn’t take us long to suss out that the product was a scam, that the ‘science’ put forward as evidence was bogus and that the ‘experts’ trotted out to support the extravagant claims were either imposters, natural therapists, nutters or totally misrepresented.

Mainly through the efforts of Jason Brown along with Jeremy Sear and Stephen Downes from Crikey, the story was picked up by ABC TV’s Media Watch and Stephen Fenech, the ‘technology writer’ of the Daily Telegraph was exposed for producing advertorial content disguised as editorial.

Channel 9’s Today Show technology reporter, Charlie Brown, was also caught up in the scandal when he made a slightly more skeptical, but unresearched report on the same product.

While Charlie’s transgression fell short of ‘cash for comment’ it was clear that he hadn’t done his homework and based his report largely on Qlink’s media release.

To his credit, Charlie engaged with his critics on his blog – whereas the Daily Telegraph simply pulled the Qlink article while Fenech went to ground. In his own defence, Charlie Brown wrote: “We ran this segment because QLink was in the media …” In other words, “It was in the news, so that made it news.” But Charlie admits he hadn’t used the product and it is obvious from his report that despite his ‘skepticism’ about the manufacturer’s claims, he hadn’t researched it either. In effect, Charlie just repeated what had already been uncritically reported elsewhere by ‘journalists’ like Fenech.

Today, “Bob”, a persistent poster on Jason Brown’s blog wonders why we have made such a big deal of this. And I’d like to answer that.

It’s not about some dumb piece of plastic that will do you no more harm than lighten your wallet to the tune of $48. It’s about a much bigger issue which starts with calling the media to account.

The Qlink incident has shown that a few intelligent, well-networked bloggers can make a difference. We can get a false story exposed on national television, we can shame a major daily newspaper and we can have an irresponsible journalist hauled over the coals for bringing their newspaper into disrepute. We are just ordinary consumers, but the internet gives us the power to fight back against an increasingly lazy and biased media.

And why is this important? It’s important because dishonest journalism isn’t just about selling you shonky devices to stick on your mobile phone. Dishonest journalism also influences the way people vote – and the governments we elect affect every aspect of our lives. It is said that a nation gets the government it deserves. It might also be said that our apathy buys us the media we deserve.

This struck home to me last night when I watched the following report from American political commentator, Rachel Maddow.

In this report, Maddow discusses the claim that President Obama’s recent trip to India and Korea will cost embattled American taxpayers $200 million per day and involve one-tenth of the entire US Navy anchored off India in case of a terrorist attack. I have to admit, if I was an American who’d lost their job and their house in the Global Financial Crisis and I heard that reported as if it were true, I’d be pretty pissed off too. But the fact is, the report is as misguided as Stephen Fenech’s spiel on the Qlink Mini Radiation Shield. It’s just not true. It’s a right-wing meme and the evidence put forward for it being true? “I’m not just making this up – it’s on the news!”

Because the story is on television,  ‘in the papers’ and ‘on the radio’ millions of Americans will believe this lie and when the next election rolls around, it will form a part of their decision making. In short, shonky media reporting means that a very large number of Americans will place their votes for the next leader of the free world based on outright lies and distortions. If that doesn’t scare the crap out of you, I don’t know what will.

The self-contained right-wing media described by Maddow is little better than that which prevails in countries like North Korea. America’s media may not be controlled by the Government, but the vested interests which do control large sections of it (yes, Rupert, I’m talking about you) are clearly not driven by a commitment to truthfulness, accuracy and objectivity. As Maddow argues, while America does have a ‘free press’ many voters receive only the information provided by the right wing media conglomerates. These conglomerates have a vested interest in creating suspicion and paranoia about media outlets whose reports conflict with their conservative ‘spin’. How can journalists and editors be truthful, accurate and objective when they are clearly driven by a right-wing political imperative? If journalists will schill shonky products for money, it’s just another step to schilling lies for political motives.

For me, the difference between lying for political gain and lying for monetary gain are just two sides of the same coin. Sure, schilling a shonky ‘radiation shield’ isn’t going to effect world peace, but it’s the same kind of ‘sell-out’ journalism that leads to the highly politicized tabloid media now entrenched in America. Is that what we want here in Australia? Is this the kind of media we deserve?

We have shown this week, in a very small way, that we can fight back against a media that doesn’t represent our interests as consumers. If we do our research and shout loud enough and in the right places, we can make a difference. Sure, it’s a dodgy bit of plastic that caused a scandal this week, but next week it might be another ‘children overboard’ scandal reported uncritically by a lazy or biased press. If the media know that the public is not only watching, but checking and that we not only expect, but demand truthful, accurate and objective reporting, then we may just avoid the situation which exists in the USA.

This takes vigilance and effort on the part of the public, but not an inordinate amount of time. It simply means when you come across something that sounds biased or wrong, you do a little research and, if your concerns are warranted, you write to the media outlet and cry foul. If you have a blog, you can blog about it. If you’re on twitter, you can tweet your concerns. If you’re on Facebook you can share it. Encourage your followers to complain as well. Be polite, but firm. If we allow our journalists to parrot media releases and our newspaper editors and television producers to feed us uncritical, unscientific, unresearched pap, then that is what we deserve. I claim that we deserve much more, and the only way we’re going to get it is to actively engage as consumers and demand far better standards in journalism than we are getting from our press, popular radio and commercial television. These outlets are consumer sensitive and will react positively to public outrage.

In order to get the media we deserve, we have to stop being passive consumers and become active participants in the dissemination of news. The internet allows us to do that. An uncritical media report might sell you a shonky bit of plastic today – tomorrow it might sell you a shonky government. This is not just about a piece of plastic.

Chrys Stevenson

Related Pages

The Super Duper Quick and Easy Guide to Becoming a Hard-Hitting Journalist – Too busy for J-School? This is all you need to know … Cartoon by Mikhaela B. Reid

Gladly’s Book Recommendations

Gladly finds shoddy reporting unbearable.  If you share his interest in politics, media and critical thinking you might like to read these books.

Press Bias and Politics: How the Media Frame Controversial Issues by Jim A. Kuypers and Robert E. Denton Jr

Supermedia: Saving Journalism So It Can Save the World by Charlie Beckett

On Doubt by Leigh Sales (Australian journalist)

Man Bites Murdoch: Four Decades in Print, Six Days in Court by Bruce Guthrie

The Persuaders: Inside the Hidden Machine of Political Advertising (Australian) by Sally Young

Trust: From Socrates to Spin by Kieron O’Hara

American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America by Chris Hedges

Global Spin: The Corporate Assault on Environmentalism by Beder Sharon

Critical Thinking: A Beginners Guide by Sharon M Kaye

Critical Lessons: What Our Schools Should Teach by Ned Noddings

Educating the Consumer Citizen: A History of the Marriage of Schools, Advertising and the Media by Joel Spring

The Complete Idiot’s Guide to Frauds, Scams and Cons by Duane Swierczynski

Bad Science by Ben Goldacre

Bogus Science: Ideas that fool some of the people all the time by John Grant

… and hundreds more books on critical thinking and skepticism from Embiggen Books online.

Special Plug:  Don’t forget The Australian Book of Atheism edited by Warren Bonett and including a chapter on the history of atheism in Australia by me will be released into all good bookstores on 22 November.  The book is available for pre-order from Embiggen Books and will be on sale at The Amazing Meeting (TAM Oz) in Sydney later this month.

Queensland Government –

People’s Question Time:

10 November 2010

Submit your question here

It would be great if as many Queenslanders as possible could submit a short question relating to the intrusion of religion into Queensland state schools. The Premier, Anna Bligh and Education Minister, Geoff Wilson will be available to take questions from the public. Please make your question is short as this gives it more chance of being aired. A question from your own experience would be great, but as ‘inspiration’ here are some issues worth considering in relation to the Premier’s response to questions on religion and education in a previous question time:

The Premier lied when she said that Queensland has a secular education system. In fact, the word secular was expunged from the Queensland education act in 1910 and the Education Minister, Geoff Wilson, wrote to the Australian Secular lobby on 15 June 2009 saying: ‘… the government currently has no plans to re-introduce the word “secular” into legislation.’

The premier assured listeners that religion in state schools is voluntary and yet the ASL has repeatedly produced evidence to the contrary to Education Queensland and been ignored. We know for a fact that a large percentage of parents who have marked ‘no religion’ on enrolment forms have found their children were put into religious instruction classes without their permission and some parents who have explicitly requested that their children not be exposed to RI have found their kids have been seated at the back of the RI class!

How ‘voluntary’ is religious exposure when chaplains wander around the school grounds handing out religious material, say prayers on assembly and at school speech nights and invite kids to lunch-time Bible studies and religious school camps? How ‘voluntary’ is religion when in order to participate in a school wide ‘non-uniform’ day, kids have to make a donation to support the school chaplain?

Education Queensland allows Hillsong’s Shine and Strength programmes into state schools and represents them to parents as secular, despite ample evidence that these programmes are used for proselytising and to impart ‘Christian’ values. Even Anna Bligh admits in the video above that Shine is a Christian programme. The video below explicitly reveals the aim of the programme is to provide “influence from a godly perspective” and to fill a “gap” in the children’s lives.

“… it gives the church to have an opportunity to have a foot in the door … and to give them those principles … that they may not get if they’re not in a Christian family … I want to see these young girls come to a knowledge of salvation … to get to know Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour.”

The Premier says that intelligent design is appropriately used in senior science classes to encourage ‘critical thinking’. One wonders whether she also advocates that the ‘flat earth theory’ should be introduced into geography classes for a similar purpose.

The Queensland Government supports the National Schools Chaplaincy programme despite opposition to the programme from teachers unions, mental health experts, and parents and citizens groups who believe the programme short-changes our children and would prefer trained mental health professionals instead.

ACT Parents and Citizens

Australian Psychological Society

New South Wales Teachers Federation

In 2008 the ratio of school counsellors to children in Queensland schools was 1:1300. Why is money being spent on chaplains rather than qualified professionals?

The more questions received on this subject, the more likely at least one or two will be put to the Premier and the Education Minister. Let’s let them know that this is an issue that’s not going to go away or be swept under the carpet.

Submit your question here

Chrys Stevenson

Related Links

Australian Secular Lobby

High Court Challenge (to National Schools Chaplaincy Programme)

Let’s Get ‘Secular’ Back in the Queensland Education Act

Secular Public Education Lobby (SPEL)

Stop the National Schools Chaplaincy Programme