That Deveny woman’s been at it again!
This time she’s been bagging ANZAC Day. The hide of the woman! In a series of tweets on 25 April, Catherine Deveny wrote:
“Anzac Day. A celebration of a society so fucked up it saw no other option than to go to war. Kill, rape and invade. Then glorify it.
“The ‘spirit of ANZAC’ does not define our nation. It’s our peaceful secular democracy rooted in workers rights, feminism & multiculturalism.
“Read your history. No war Australia has ever fought has resulted in our ‘freedom’ or ‘opportunities’.
“Days like #anzacday are simply a rewriting of history to stop the sucked in and ripped off burning down parliament and killing politicians.
“Not the day for it? The only day for it. Show respect? That’s exactly what I’m doing.
“It’s very clear Japan had no intention of invading Australia. The persistance (sic) of this myth is amazing/alarming/convenient.”
I’ve written here about why I didn’t put the boot into Deveny. But, many others disagreed with her in the strongest possible terms, as is their right.
What concerns me is that those brave, true-blue, hand-on-the-heart Aussies who tore into Catherine (for pointing out what others think is nothing more than the bleeding obvious) have not been given due credit for their insightful arguments, their compelling defence of the ANZAC tradition, their use of evidence, or their patient and persuasive polemic on why a view held, not only by Deveny, but also by many veterans, should be taboo. It’s a crying shame, really.
It seems to me that those people who took on Deveny should really get their moment in the spotlight. Their ANZAC Day efforts should appear whenever a prospective partner or employer happens to Google their name. After all, they must be so very proud, defending their country and all. It hardly seems fair that they should just fade into oblivion after taking all that time finding pithy adjectives to throw at a hard-working woman and mother who just happens to have a different take on ANZAC Day to them. I tossed and turned all last night just thinking about the injustice of it all.
So, here in my little corner of the blogosphere, I’m happy to shine a light on Deveny’s critics; happy to use my network to make them a lot better known. And, with a little bit of nifty internet research, I’m delighted to say, if you read on, you can get to know these Aussie heroes better. Perhaps you’ll even recognise one or two of them. Catherine tells me she’s already getting lots of emails from people saying, “Oh my God! I know that person!” And boy, do they deserve the recognition! So, here goes:
Richo Richman aka Richard Heath
As you can see, Richo has a real way with words. That’s why he’s such a hugely successful comedian. Really! Just google him and you’ll see all the gigs he’s done and where he’s gigging next. Well, maybe not. It seems Richo’s comedic talent is largely undiscovered – or, perhaps, undiscoverable.
Apparently Richo was educated at Timbertop school. Maybe that’s where he learned all those big words. Timbertop must be so proud.
Still, comedian and radio personality Meshel Laurie seems to appreciate his style. Perhaps we’ll see Richo performing the warm up for Meshel’s next show, eh?
Ignibus Ignes
Aww, shucks. I wasn’t able to find Ignibus Ignes’ real name but I’m sure hoping someone will recognise him or her. Ignibus (not to be confused with Ignorant) is a dyed in the wool Liberal supporter.
Almost as cranky with the Greens and Labor as he/she is with Deveny, Ignibus (proudly incognito) boasts the photo of a cockpit of a superhornet as his/her icon. An RAAF connection there? Or simply Walter Mitty wishful thinking?
Come on, Ignibus – don’t be shy! Tell us who you are. After all, your nemesis, Catherine, is at least ‘man’ enough to make her statements under her real name. I’m sure your anonymity is an oversight.
Mick Thom
Mick (aka Michael) Thom is a St Bernard’s College old boy. Ah, those Catholic schools, they really know how to produce fine, upstanding Australian citizens, don’t they? Tony Abbott, George Pell and now, Michael Thom! I wonder if Mick has political aspirations. I sure hope I can give him a little more exposure!
Michael’s an athletic sort and still close to his old alma mater. He’s the Vice President of St Bernard’s Old Collegian’s Cricket Club and their 2nd XI Captain – for now, at least.
If you want to join Michael Thom’s fan club you can find him on Twitter: @mickthom10
Russell (Mad Dog) Hutchison
Russell Nelson Hutchison (aka Mad Dog) is a Vietnam vet and avid beer can collector from Vincent, Townsville. Russell served as a tactical operator on HMAS Sydney and HMAS Stuart between 1965 and 1968, back in the day when women were scarce aboard naval ships; perhaps just as well.
Maybe we should introduce Russell to Gracie Grace who believes that Australian soldiers are unique among the world’s armies in their categorical rejection of violence against women.
After all, as Russell so forcefully argues, a good raping is perfectly acceptable providing the woman deserves it.
Dean “Trash” Willis
Dean Willis is another one of those unassuming critics who hides his light under a bushel. Not one to push his real name into the limelight, Willis prefers to ‘trash’ people under his trashy pseudonym. He also goes by the name of Deany_yo on Instagram. I’m sure he’ll appreciate the extra traffic.
Hailing from Australia’s east coast, it seems congratulations are due to Mr Willis and his wife Melissa. They’ve just had twin boys.
Oh, what lessons he can teach them on how to engage in respectful debate and how to speak to women. Lucky, lucky boys – and lucky Melissa to have such a gem for a husband.
Brendan Brookman
Brendan Teejay Brookman (click to see his smiling face) is a Townsville based soldier with the 2nd Battalion Royal Australian Regiment. Brookman was deployed in East Timor from 2009 to 2010. It appears his passion is now to defend the internetz against womenz like Deveny. And what a fine job he is doing!
The army must be bursting with pride to have Brendan showing the world’s netizens just what fine men our modern Australian army is producing.
Poor old Gracie Grace (above) must be having heart flutters at the idea that one of our brave boys could suggest that the way to deal with Melbourne comedians who don’t agree with him is to line them up in front of a firing squad. Australian soldiers would never think such a thing, would they Gracie?
Grahame Hopewell
Our next proud patriot, Grahame Hopewell, resides on the south side of Brisbane. He’s the father of three, including a daughter. You wonder if a ‘rifle butt to the face’ is Mr Hopewell’s standard method of discipline, or whether it’s a punishment reserved for women who get above their station.
Grahame, we’re sure you’re right in asserting your arsehole is prettier than Deveny, but I’m curious. Just how much time a day do you spend looking at your arsehole as opposed to talking out of it?
Ari Hinchco
If there’s one thing Deveny did right on ANZAC Day, it was to give the stalwarts of that proud tradition an excuse to show us just what kind of people they are.
Take Ari Hinchco (Please! Take Ari Hinchco! – boom-tish). Originally from Herefordshire, Ari was in the Royal New Zealand Navy. He posts as @freelancer17235 on Twitter.
Ari is a veterans’ advocate and I think we can all applaud him for that. I come from a military family and I know how appallingly successive governments treat our veterans and how important it is for our veterans to have good advocates.
I guess it’s a good thing that advocates should be particular about where they put their penises (God knows Catholic priests aren’t so particular!) And, I think we should give props to Ari for the creative idea of turning our Dev into a dartboard. As his old mates at the ex RNZN Navy Club say, Ari has ‘never been one to hold back’.
It just makes you wonder whether that applies to all his endeavours, doesn’t it?
Eliah Sutton
Eliah James Sutton is a personal favourite of mine. An alumni of Mountain Creek State High School at the Sunshine Coast, but now resident in Darwin (presumably in the army), Eliah used to post as Shmeelsy on Myspace. Here Eliah tells us ‘you gotta ask your self is this where you wanna be when jesus comes back … sitting on your ass feeling sorry for your self’.
Clearly a good Christian boy, Eliah also fills us in on what he’s looking for in a woman: “Chicks with brains and high sex drives … brains don’t really matter …” Perfect. An ideal candidate for home-schooling his children.
… clearly, Catherine, losing a few IQ points might help if you want to endear yourself to Mr Sutton.
On Facebook, Eliah was keen to get his friends to join the Catherine Deveny feeding frenzy.
And even emailed Catherine direct, just to make sure she got the message:
Nick Shackcloth
Nick Shackcloth is also from Darwin and planning to join the Australian Defence Force in August this year. I bet they’re champing at the bit to have Nick join the forces and bring a bit of class to the military.
Encouraging women to commit suicide by plunging off the top of high buildings is certainly a more modern twist on chivalry than escorting little old ladies across the road. (Still, being a lollipop lady for octogenarians might be a tad dangerous given that Nick spends so much time texting from his Sony Xperia (TM) smartphone.)
Nick was educated at Coolum State High School at the Sunshine Coast – I’ll bet he’s on their honours board.
Graeme Hopkinson
Graeme Hopkinson (posting as @churchurchur on Twitter) is a 46 year old charmer from Queensland. Click if you dare, girls, but have a bottle of smelling salts at the ready! We don’t want you swooning in a sudden attack of ‘the vapors’!
Graeme, dear, if your wife ever leaves you, you must use this as your RSVP pic!
Originally from New Zealand, Graeme now lives on the Gold Coast where he spends his time, selflessly encouraging people who don’t agree with him to top themselves. Clearly, disagreeing with Graeme must be so painful that death would surely be preferable!
Not one to cave to political correctness, Graeme is happy to castigate girlfriend beater, Chris Brown, for being a ‘dumb nigger’ while feeling totally comfortable hurling verbal abuse at Ms Deveny because that’s … um …. different.
You have to love a man who can keep two totally conflicting ethical viewpoints in his head at the one time.
I bet Graeme would be good at juggling too – if only he could find some balls.
Olivia Smith
Lest I be accused of bathing the men in glory while ignoring the ‘fairer sex’, it’s important to note that most, but not all of Deveny’s critics were men. There were some lovely ladies laying in to her as well.
Take the glamorous would-be make-up-guru-to-the-stars, Olivia Smith, posting as @OliviaMae13 on Twitter.
And, you know what they say! ‘Bogan is the new black!’
————-
So there it is – it’s not a complete run-down of all those who threatened Deveny with rape, suggested she should kill herself, or simply took the time to tell her how ugly she is – but it’s the best I could do in a day. I’m sorry to all those people I didn’t get a chance to spotlight. Maybe next time.
And, I can’t complete this post without a special shout out to those fabulous people at the Quality Hotel Mildura Grand who, after hearing of Catherine’s tweets, decided to cancel the booking she’d made at their property for the duration of her Curvy Crumpet show in Mildura.
Apparently, it’s a new policy being tried out – guests’ political and social opinions must conform with management’s before a booking can be honoured.
What’s next, party political hotels? The Quality Hotel Mildura LNP Grand? The Tullamarine Airport Greens Hotel? The Laverton Labor Inn?
Those clever bunnies at Quality are set to revolutionise the hotel industry! Just watch! Next we can segregate based on religion and race too. What fun!
And, what fun ‘Defending Deveny’ again. She certainly keeps me busy! Buzz me Deveny, this is turning into a full time job! We gotta talk about commission rates!
Chrys Stevenson
PS: If you want to see both Deveny and me (preferably not for the purpose of topping us, raping us, or encouraging us to plunge from high buildings) we’ll both be appearing at the Reality Bites Literary Festival in Cooroy, Sunshine Coast, Queensland from the 25-28 July. More details here.
Update – Friday 17 May 2013:
Peter
Yesterday, a man called Peter sent through just the sort of comment I’ve been waiting for. YouI would have thought this post gave fair warning about what I planned to do to people who sent through gendered and abusive comments!
“Too good to spam!” I thought and promptly googled Peter’s details, aided by the email address attached to his comment. I subsequently published those details here.
“Oh, Peter!” I wrote, “Such a very poor business decision.” I pondered how many of his customers would remain after learning how he speaks to women on the internet. Here is Peter’s comment:
“fck you moron my grandfather getting wounded Darwin was lie,get your fck head out of your ass smell the rose’s what about broome( lots of aboriginals got wounded and killed so that lie to are you racist to now, it ather parts western australia were bomb to so was thats lie to , were where your fck uneducated parent’s from,maybe just maybe they where hiding behind bong,so that why your drug fcked whore, look in the mirror ,your the joke you idiot, my grandfathers never did what you say happen, how fck do you know what they did you read it somewhere plz O plz give us book, your not only unaustralian but it think your racist you have branded not only white aussie’s and aboriginals who have served this country as well you know what wrote,”
I pointed out, for the record, that I would not have publicly revealed Peter’s full name, email, town, business name and connection with a Christian school if he had written something along the lines of the following:
“I disagree with Catherine Deveny’s views on ANZAC day. My grandfather was wounded in Darwin during World War II, I am very proud of his service, and ANZAC Day means a lot to me and my family. Is Ms Deveny aware that many Aborigines were also wounded and killed in the wars Australia has been involved in? Aborigines are given so little recognition in this country. Isn’t it right that we should commemorate their military service?
Yes, terrible things happen in wartime but I think most Australian soldiers simply ‘did their bit’. I’m sure my grandfathers were never involved in anything untoward, so why shouldn’t we take some time on ANZAC Day to honour them? I worry that views like Ms Deveny’s are disrespectful to many people whose families served our country – including our Indigenous population. Perhaps Ms Deveny should think a little more carefully before voicing criticisms next time.”
My point is that this blog post as not ‘outed’ people for disagreeing with Deveny – but for the way they did it.
To his credit, Peter has since posted what I believe to be a sincere apology:
“i wish to make this public, LADYs and Gentlemen im very sorry for my language and the way talk about women in general today i was outline, i have never talked like that in my life,unless its to your face without the swearing, im very sorry as i have PTSD and the med plays hell on my mind but that not way i shouldn’t talk or say anything about or anyone even if i dont like what they say thankyou chrys for pulling me up i was out of line.”
As the aim of this blog was to make people reflect on the wisdom and consequences of abusing women online (and elsewhere) I think the appropriate response is to accept Peter’s apology, remove identifying details from this blog post and hope he has learned a lesson.
Related Posts
The Anzac Spirit. Top 100 Hate Comments – Catherine Deveny
Misogyny Justified by Defence of ANZAC Day? (The War On Catherine Deveny) – The Antibogan
Are Australians militaristic fascists now, too? – PZ Myers, Pharyngula
Gladly, the Cross-Eyed Bear 
Great article Chrys. I couldn’t read all the hate comments, it makes me ashamed to be an Australian that we have people so narrow minded, rude and ignorant posting their crap all over the internet. Carry on.
p.s. I am using my real name, as I actually tell the truth online and IRL and stand up for my comments and view, unlike most of the posters you have mentioned.
Oh Chrys, you rock.
p.s. I use a pseudonym. Not because I want to hide my identify–as my detractors argue–but to separate parts of my life. I’m a rather vocal vegan activist. My detractors are plentiful. Rather than respond to my arguments they usually resort of ad hominems or bang on about me being an anonymous troll. Anonymity is just that; being anonymous. I’ve told them time and time again not to be so lazy: google will deliver them my full name and mobile number in a matter of seconds if they try hard enough. But you know what, when I propose that, they go silent.
I can’t read it all, makes me to angry. I think Dev is right about ANZAC day anyhow, people have the right to disagree, it is not and never is ok to talk about raping, killing, burning someone just because you don’t agree with them. Thanks for writing this Chrys awesome as always.
Brilliant Chrys. Love your work. Hate anonymous trolls, so I was particularly chuffed to read this!
Lessons to learn from this:
If you’re going to argue something on the internet, then at least do it in a fashion that either you or the majority of others won’t look back at and cringe.”I hope you die…get raped by a bull…fucking slut…”
People have the opportunity to use valid, polite, logical arguments to counter others and this is the best that they can come up with? Being trolls at best and absolute disgraceful bullies at worst? Really?
If they receive the same bile and abuse back in retribution for their comments then I can’t say that they haven’t earned it. We’re bigger and better than that though, aren’t we, ladies and gentlemen?
So many from the Sunshine Coast… or Queensland. Good luck at Coolum! Great blog post.
My husband posted a picture on Facebook of an anti Vietnam war rally taking place on Anzac day (during the 70’s of course) with the caption ‘my how times have changed’ and was also ‘lectured’ by everyone. Not one perspn saw his perspective, which completely mirrors Deveny’s. We call this Howards Legacy. Anzac Day march numbers were dwindling and on the way out until Howard revived the war… and cricket.
Hi Chris,
Great article from you and I had also read Catherine’s blob post on the haters. I really don’t understand why people feel that a violent and abusive response is the only way to express their disagreement with her stance, well actually I do understand why, it is because they have not been educated to think critically. They just have a ‘feeling’ and express it and it never goes further than that, like my four year old niece says when she doesn’t get her own way ‘ you made me sad’. That the emails and facebook comments to Catherine show the same level of maturity as a four year old is very telling.
The inflammatory remarks that Catherine makes from time to time are an invitation for this type of response. If Catherine doesn’t want the nasty, personal attacks, she shouldn’t make the inflammatory remarks in the first place. When she makes remarks like these or the Bindi Irwin/Rove McManus episode or various attacks on the Catholic Church, she can’t possibly be surprised by the response.
Now, before everyone gets on me about free speech, her right to express and opinion, not blaming the victim etc etc, understand that I am not defending the rants, I am just saying that they were entirely predictable. Here on Earth a certain percentage of the population are dickheads. It is what it is. Move on.
On the upside, they’re not important and we don’t have to pay any attention to them. And that’s the thing. Why are are paying attention to them? Why are we giving them oxygen? Ignore them as a predictable but unimportant part of the discussion.
For a healthy democracy to exist we need people with divergent and unpopular opinions, like Catherine, and the freedom to be able to express them.
The price of free speech for Catherine is that the dickheads have it too. How good is that? Do we live in a great country or what?
I disagree, Kurt. These kind of comments add to a culture of violence against women. I believe the best antiseptic is a spotlight. People who make violent comments about women need to know there are consequences.
Yes, they do add to the culture of violence if we give them context and relevance. They have neither, unless we put the spotlight on them, and by doing so we are not disinfecting them by holding them to account, we are giving them what they want – a spotlight.
We will not stop this type of rubbish by putting the spotlight on them. We will probably never stop it but we can deny them relevance.
Well, let’s see how cautious they become when they have to answer to their employers, COs, prospective employers, wives and girlfriends.
Sent from my iPhone
I have to disagree, Kurt. Free speech does not extend to hate-speech. An individual has every right of reply and can disagree strongly (even vehemently) with somebody else. But personal attacks, vitriol, and aggression are not examples of free speech, they are examples of abuse.
Here’s a measuring stick: imagine these disgusting comments were directed at your daughter/mother/sister – if you feel angry at that thought, then the comments are out of line. No philosophy could dispute this, pure and simple.
This type of behaviour is not the cost of free speech, it is the poison of a scared, uneducated, and broken society.
Hey Zack,
I don’t have to imagine this happening to my daughter/mother/sister (or my son/father/brother for that matter) to know that the comments are vile and disgraceful. I’m not defending the comments. I’m saying they are predictable and that the cowards making them are unimportant.
In the end, they are words. Horrible, violent, disgraceful words that tell us everything we need to know about the cowards saying them. Ultimately, we are only injured by them if we choose to be.
Cheers
I don’t believe Catherine has been ‘injured’. She sees the comments for what they are.
But the point remains, leaving these kinds of comments unchallenged adds to a culture that says violence and the violent ideation that leads to it are acceptable.
These people tend to live in echo chambers where everyone thinks as they do. It’s time they learned that women simply won’t lay down and ‘die’ any more.
Sent from my iPhone
You don’t get it. There is nothing I have ever done that can be compared to the rape and death threats and hate mail I received, receive on a regular basis and and all high profile women or any women who doesn’t do what she’s told cop. I’ll let Clementine Ford explain ‘the fact is, language and abuse like that shown by Richo has been systematically applied against women to humiliate them, degrade them and belittle them because it’s considered an easy and legitimate way to shut women up. Supporting his right to do it isn’t supporting free speech. It’s supporting a system in which women aren’t entitled to the same access to public space as men, where their presence there is conditional on them exchanging sexual pliability, attractiveness or deferential compliance. There are women whose views I can’t stand, but I would never defend anyone’s ‘right’ to speak about them like this.’
By even going down this line suggests you see a comment about rauch culture, the nature of celebrity, the sexual objectification of women in the media (Bindi) and a true sentiment lost through twitter (worked for Rove for five years AND he endorsed my first book ) are equivelant the Top 100 Haters.
Even when they whole of Australia HATED The Chaser boys they NEVER copped the level of hate many woman cop on a daily basis. The hate they cop is much less, never sexually violent in nature, gender based or focused on their appearance. How do I know? They told me.
Hi Catherine,
Welcome to the conversation, I’m glad you dropped by.
Firstly, I do get it. At least as much as I can without having experienced it.
Secondly, I am not supporting his right to free speech, I am supporting yours. I do this in the knowledge that it also gives a conduit to the dickhead to express his nonsense.
Thirdly, if his abuse is designed to shut you up, how is that working out for him? Have you shut up yet? No. Of course not. Keep talking, it drives them nuts.
Again, I am not saying the remarks about Bindi and Rove deserved what they got. I am saying the response was predictable. Personally, I thought the remark about Bindi lacked artistic merit. My response was to unfollow you. Thats what a normal person would do.
Catherine, the world is full of dickheads who will try to shout you down in the most horrible way. Of course its wrong and of course you don’t deserve it. But it is a fact of life. Putting a spotlight on them gives them oxygen and relevance. Your best weapon is to keep talking.
Cheers,
Kurt
A woman being threatened with rape and murder should be expected? … We should just move on? … You can’t be serious.
Hi Kylie, yes I am serious. But don’t confuse “expected” (actually my word was predictable) with “acceptable”.
The remarks WERE predictable but ARE NOT acceptable.
By “move on” I mean don’t engage with them, move on to something important. If you engage with them you give them relevance.
“The inflammatory remarks that Catherine makes from time to time are an invitation for this type of response.”
So are remarks about global warming, or social justice, or separation of church and state, or unionism and unfair dismissal. Catherine’s remarks are not considered inflamatory by a great many war vets, they are a reflection of their opinions too.
Reasoned debate, critical thinking, these should be the standard for our country. Alas our education system seems to produce people who cannot articulate disagreement or even reason enough to find out if they really disagree, and instead just hurl invective.
The most important point for me in all this is that of course I will not be shut down but what I go through intimidates other, particularly women, from speaking up. The naming and shaming may curb this and also illuminate the constant ‘well blokes cop it too, nature of the beast’ illusion. When you see it like I have illustrated it makes others realise the hate mail women cop is of an entirely different reason, flavour, motivation and agenda. And the amount is disproportionate. People need to see it so they know women are not questioned on what they said or attacked for what they said but for the mere fact they said it.
It appears that most patriots are delusional people who like to sugar coat everything their nation does. I bet these people also claim the slaughter of the aborigines during firsts settlement was also “an act of freedom”.
The resources online regarding the attack on Turkey by the ANZACS clearly states that it was an “INVASION” of Turkey. Even the Australian Governments website on anzac uses the word ‘Invasion” as seen here:
http://www.anzacsite.gov.au/2visiting/tgallipoli.htmlbecause that’s what
Because invasion was exactly what it was, Australians traveled to the other side of the world to invade a country for personal gain.
Wikipedia on Galipolli and the Anzacs states the reason for the invasion as:
” A joint British and French operation was mounted to capture the Ottoman capital of Constantinople (Istanbul) in Turkey to secure a sea route to Russia after Turkey refused passage through their own country”
As a Turkish citizen myself I find it offensive that the delusional patriots here are trying to sugarcoat the attack and some are even claiming it was a fight for freedom. Turkey NEVER Threatened Australia’s freedom, The turks didn’t even know Australia existed on the map let alone know how to get here.
I appreciate you for exposing the truth and its disgusting watching these delusional butt-hurt patriots defending war crimes.
Beg to differ. Voicing your completely valid opinion on a given issue is in no way an invitation to disgusting vile personal attacks. It also shouldn’t be expected, there is something wrong if your viewpoint is that a woman can’t express her point of view on issues without being called a ‘slut’, with threats of rape and murder and extensive derogatory commentary on her appearance.
You’re crazy if you think “you f*ckin bitch, you deserve to be raped” is the predictable response to stating you disagree with the celebrations of Anzac day. And that’s not to say that you agree with them, or are defending them, but there is something wrong (with you, and with society) if that’s the response you expect.
You’re missing the point. In no way am I saying it is acceptable. I am saying it is predictable. Catherine already knows this because, as she said, it has happened many times before.
You are trying to mount a rational argument with people who are not rational.
The issue is how to deal with it. The argument here is to put a spotlight on it. I argue that it is best to deny them oxygen and relevance, that’s all.
(although I did enjoy the response to Peter Thornleys post)
Cheers
So, what do you suggest? That Catherine should just shut up or that she should be a silent victim of this kind of sexually violent vitriol?
If no-one will stand up and say, “Enough!” How do you think things will change?
You know, during the fight for civil rights, there were many African Americans who complained that the noisy ‘troublemakers’ should just be quiet and not complain lest they made things worse for everyone.
I wonder how that strategy would have worked.
Sent from my iPhone
And no, I am not trying to mount a rational argument against people who are irrational. I agree, that’s a waste of time.
Instead, I’m saying, ‘When you abuse women, physically or verbally, it WILL have consequences. Don’t think you can just get off scott free.’
Isn’t that how you teach children right from wrong?
When I was 20 years old, my boss cornered me in the photo copying room.I told him if he took one step further, I would kick him in the balls until they were black and blue. Then, I said, I would ring his wife and tell him why I was sending him home with bruised balls.
He backed off and said, “So, It’s like that, is it?”
I said, “Yes.”
I never had another problem with him, and from then on, he treated me with a new respect.
It was important lesson for a young girl.
Excellent article (again!) Chris. When were we supposed to find enlightenment as a race? Oh, the Humanity! I wish you both the best for the trip North. Sorry I won’t be there to stand guard at the door. I was raised in QLD (the state where Billy Connelly got bashed after a gig) and would gladly stand between you and the mouth-breathing miscreants in an effort to educate them further 😉
Thanks Zack, Catherine is visiting, I already live here.
Been trying to work out what bothers me about all this, apart from the obvious as highlighted above. In the end, I cant help but feel that there is an element of entrapment or playing puppet master in some of Catherine’s twitter rants specifically this one. I broadly support “the provocative” as a valuable part of public discourse, including Catherine’s work. But the whole thing leaves me feeling uncomfortable in more ways than one.
Maybe that’s the point.
i have never once in my life set out to be provocative, offensive or controversial. People have responded that way. What I think and say seems as completely normal and logical to me as whatever seems completely normal and logical to you. I sit there like most thinking ‘Errr, what’s the big deal? I’m stating the obvious.’ Most people understand that. The silent majority is neither silent nor the majority. Same for the moral majority.
Well done Catherine and Chrys!
I haven’t read enough of your writing to have an opinion. What I will never understand though is people who feel it’s “ok” to abuse, threaten and tell someone to kill themselves.
I feel sorry for their parents, who must be ashamed, and I feel sorry for their kids.
(There is such a thing as ‘debating’. Manners wouldn’t go astray either)
Luckily I strongly believe in the Karma Bus……….
The only karma is that which we apply ourselves. No use waiting for the karma bus unless you’re willing to drive it.
If we all believed the same, life would be boring. And there’d be no need for ‘debate’.
These comments that Deveny got are simply terrible. I felt very ashamed that Australians are writing this to her. I do not support these peoples comments in any form. I do think the Deveny herself is making these comments to provoke a reaction and hate comments. I do think that the comments can be made and she is free to make them but considering the terrible toll it had on families losing both men and women to war. Consider those who returned and the emotional struggles they had trying to return to civilian life. Her comments are not caring or respectful and may have been written to inflame.
Regarding ANZAC day its self I find it a very hard day something that I dont celebrate but remember the loss or our own. Like it or not it does form apart of our society and it does etch in our minds the cost of war.
My dad and my uncles were all world War two vets. I don’t believe Catherine’s comments have dishonoured them in the least. Among many others, my father would not have set foot in an RSL or walked in and Anzac day parade for the very reasons cited by Catherine.
I am not saying that people who are vets are all offended but I can see why they would be really hurt and offended. I guess the RSL was orginally more about support of returned soliders and forms a very impotant part of the fabric of society. It is probably a credit to your family your dad and uncle might have had a good support structure to help them through. You may argue that point about the importance but the fact remains that it has made an impact ( maybe good , maybe bad).
Regardless I think she has raised the issue of why people stop and think about ANZAC day.
They have a right to be offended. But that does not excuse violent abuse.
Sent from my iPhone
Important and excellent. Great research and some one-liners that Dev would be proud of. 🙂
The more offensive commenters are, the less intelligent, I always think.
As for Anzac Day, I don’t know much about it but it’s always struck me as odd that we celebrate what seems to be a monumental cock-up.
“And, I can’t complete this post without a special shout out to those fabulous people at the Quality Hotel Mildura Grand who, after hearing of Catherine’s tweets, decided to cancel the booking she’d made at their property for the duration of her Curvy Crumpet show in Mildura.
Apparently, it’s a new policy being tried out – guests’ political and social opinions must conform with management’s before a booking can be honoured.”
Thats funny, I didn’t hear the same complaints were not made by progressives about the various venues cancelling Q-Society bookings a little while ago – oh thats right “guests’ political and social opinions must conform with management’s before a booking can be honoured.”
Then you haven’t been reading my Facebook page, Johnny. I posted a link to an article about it. I didn’t know enough about the Q Society or Geert Wilders to comment but as long as he wasn’t inciting racial hatred, I see no reason why he shouldn’t have been allowed to speak.
That said, there is quite a difference between a venue cancelling a booking where someone is going to speak and a a hotel cancelling a booking where the speaker is going to do nothing but rest their head.
He was talking about a religion.
Even thought I don’t really “get” Catherine Deveny I do understand why people would get upset about her comments and feel like they have to say something without considering it too much first. Commenting online is not like talking in the pub to your friends, you lose 95% of the context of what you are saying and it is too easy to come across as strident or one sided in your views as the people reading it know nothing about you apart from what you have written and think that is all there is to you.
I know I have said a lot of embarrassing stuff online, particularly on newsgroups that are still accessible, but a lot harder to find than blog posts. Some sort of statute of limitations/editing posts if people come forward and explain/apologise may be appropriate here?
It’s hard to really say much about either side in my case as I know people who are good friends with Deveny and I also spend a lot of time in two different RSL clubs in Melbourne.
Frankly Tim, I don’t think there is any context in which the statement, “I hoe you get raped” is acceptable. People need to realise the Internet is forever and what you say here may impact your real life. The big clue is, don’t make violent, abusive or sexist, racist, homophobic threats or taunts. Instead, say, “I disagree,” and argue your case. Either that, or keep out if it.
There’s some interesting hatred going on here towards Catherine. You’d think they’d be more upset having soldiers blown apart in wars that aren’t our own? Oops… Can’t go there! Let’s get all foaming at the mouth towards the chick instead!
If they were so upset you’d also think they’d go to Mildura and protest about the show? Oh, sorry, none of them turned up, which goes to show it’s easy bleating online whilst sitting on your arse, than actually putting your words into actions.
Mm…
Great article Chrys. You both seem extremely clever and I hope just as many people write to Catherine in support of her bravery, strength and great politics. She holds a lot of respect amongst the circle of friends I associate with, and for good reason. Thanks for the heads up- Ill be sure never to visit that hotel in Mildura.
Nate
How can people call the army the ‘defense force’ when they go into another country to murder people and cause havoc? Who are the terrorists? People are so ignorant and stupid, and to vilify Catherine for being right and stating her opinions is pathetic. Keep it up, Catherine! Change the world.
To be fair, much of what our modern army does is defensive or supportive and I would certainly not pin ‘murder’ on the many Australian troops from all wars who served – often against their wishes. Yes, war is often murderous but if people are killed the blood is most often on the hands of governments, not individual soldiers.
This is what Catherine does best. Gets Australia passionately engaged. Hooray. As a 19 year old abroad .. (so many years ago)…I watched backpacker Aussies glaze over when passionate political debate was in the air. As for the trolls and haters. Just caught up with ABC IView program..”The AntiSocial Network”. UK Journalist tracking down his trolls and haters. Great show..really worth a look if it is still playing. Two known trolls who lurk on family tribute pages were interviewed. One willingly and the othr not so. Look closely at these two men. Something about them. Emotional / Sensitive types with a troubled look about them. All I could think of watching these two guys was…”Who did this to you?” Ive been following this whole Mildura / Anzac / Haters debate over the last few days. Went looking in the Australian War Memorial’s online bookshop. And of course there are books available in this hallowed place that question the glorification of Australian fighting men and women. The issue of CD receiving sexually violent abuse is appalling. Legally fascinating. Hv just discovered this website. Yay. Im subscribing. RocketBear
Ah Chrys, thankyou for this insightful journey into the troll blogosphere – I think! Actually, it left me rather speechless but very, very um..concerned for our feminist present & future. My personal mantra (though I don’t reside much in the cyber-world) is always challenge, challenge, challenge! I’M YOUR FAN x
fck you moron my grandfather getting wounded Darwin was lie,get your fck head out of your ass smell the rose’s what about broome( lots of aboriginals got wounded and killed so that lie to are you racist to now, it ather parts western australia were bomb to so was thats lie to , were where your fck uneducated parent’s from,maybe just maybe they where hiding behind bong,so that why your drug fcked whore, look in the mirror ,your the joke you idiot, my grandfathers never did what you say happen, how fck do you know what they did you read it somewhere plz O plz give us book, your not only unaustralian but it think your racist you have branded not only white aussie’s and aboriginals who have served this country as well you know what wrote,
Note from Chrys: This comment is from Peter Thornely of Pure Wish – a company which makes tutus in Bowral, NSW. I would normally spam this kind of comment, but, given the subject of this post, I have decided to approve it. I have posted my comments on it at the end of the blog post above. I assume that Peter will not object to his personal details being released given that the blog post should have given him fair warning that I do not value the privacy of those who argue with abuse rather than reason. Bad call Peter.
leave my family out of this you can target me but leave them out of this as the bulling from that school on my family was pretty bad if,to the that point well read between the lines there is more to it in witch i will not say ,I wish could take it all back i would, but as i have PTSD i guess i should think before i speak think wisers words could been use,and yes,i just had meds looked at it again O did write that guess i did, leave business out of it,I will eat my words and my sorry for my language ladys i was told think before you speak ,i guess i will have wear the mud on my face,can i ask that all my details be removed for there sake, but showing my details could put children at risk,
Peter, you brought your business into this when you sent the abuse from your business address. You had fair warning as to what would happen if you sent me abusive email. I have not released any details about your wife and children. I suggest you explain to them what you’ve done. Perhaps next time you will think more carefully before flying off the handle. You thought you could do it with no consequences. That’s no longer the case. Women will not just sit back and take this crap silently any more. I note you also made a hateful remark about Catherine on ANZAC Day, totally unrelated to her comments on ANZAC. I will not remove your details. You made the mess, you clean it up.
Oh, that’s just a free kick.
Reblogged this on you said it….
i wish to make this public, LADYs and Gentlemen im very sorry for my language and the way talk about women in general today i was outline, i have never talked like that in my life,unless its to your face without the swearing, im very sorry as i have PTSD and the med plays hell on my mind but that not way i shouldn’t talk or say anything about or anyone even if i dont like what they say thankyou chrys for pulling me up i was out of line.
Peter, I do appreciate the apology, but it’s not quite right that this is the first time you’ve done this, is it? Wasn’t it you who, on ANZAC Day made nasty remarks about Catherine on Facebook? I didn’t see you speakiing out against those who were abusing Catherine – you just merrily joined in. At least, unlike Mick Thom, you had the guts not to try to squirm out of it by saying your email had been hacked. You have my respect on that count, at least.
I was always told take meds like man if I stuff up and you know it go to that person and wear it, thankyou understanding, all I remember I lost very good and dear friend the day before ANZAC day (25yrs armed serves)he had PTSD note i didn’t post any thing on my fb for his family sake im miss him dearly i had to troll back though to find it what i have said o boy im the idiot i have been,due to PTSD,i know that they is no need for what I have said,I was very angry about what she said I have said what i have said without or with meds,im very sorry for my words and actions.but for someone say they were hacked mmm dont thinks so
sincerely yours peter
Love it. You are fantastic.
Well making negative comments about a day so special to most, when loosing husbands, fathers and brothers is on recall in the minds of those who have lost, is very insensitive. Perhaps provoke dialogue 6 months before ANZAC day if you want a serious debate about it.
For the record, economic terrorism of peoples livelihoods based on political views is juvenile and very nasty. Allow people freedom of expression, reply and prove wrong as necessary. Women & Babies might rely on that bread winner.
First, ANZAC Day is special to many, but I wouldn’t say most. I have never argued that people are wrong to be offended by Catherine’s comments or that they should agree with them. My argument is that the correct response is to oppose them with reasoned debate, not gendered abuse.
Second, this blog post made it very, very clear what my approach to gendered abuse is. No-one forced Peter to send foul, gendered abuse into my inbox. It was his choice to use his business email address. If his family suffers as a result of what he’s done, the blame lies at his feet, not mine. Consider, if you threw that kind of abuse at your boss, Sophie – how long do you think you’d have a job? Would you blame them for firing you because people depend on your income?
People make their choices on the internet. What they need to know is that those choices have consequences.
I would go to jail rather than reveal the private details of anyone who posts on my blog. But, when you send me abusive comments, I consider that you have abdicated your right to privacy.
Peter (and others who attacked Deveny) have complete freedom of expression. If they had simply disagreed with her and given their reasons there would have been no problem. They also have the right to post abuse – but the victims of that kind of attack equally have a right to respond.
These bullies didn’t have the intelligence (or, apparently, the arguments) to take on Deveny on an intellectual level, so they resorted to abuse like a pack of school yard bullies.
For too long, women have received this kind of treatment and have just shut up because they are scared and they think if they don’t respond it will stop. It doesn’t. It just gets worse.
I’m drawing a line in the sand. You throw gendered, violent abuse around on this blog and you get outed. If that hurts you and your family, it’s your problem not mine. Let’s hope it makes the online bullies think before they type next time.
hang on there it wasn’t sent from place of business in the first place i dont know how it got linked to it, i sent from my fb page were should be linked the not business one yes it on ,thats my e-mail address, some how its cross link it shouldn’t have,yes you have the right to have go it me,yes i balls up,peter think before you speak, but i didn’t target you im sorry if you fill that way,due to my PTSD leaving home to get real job in the world is a nightmare thats why I work from home,im no bullie as you put it now you put those words there not me,yes i over stepped the line by attack her and her family that was way out of line even for me,and im truly sorry about that but your the one who putting my page up not me,it looks like your attacking me now,but see your point it does look like im having go at you but im not, trust me on that and you take what I said with grain of salt,that is your freedom and right to say so,i guess i let my anger get the better of me over what CD said, I guess i dont have the right voice what think as male 😦
sincerely yours peter
Peter the email you sent the abusive comment from is the same one displayed on your FB business page.
I’m considering what to do about you and I’m going to sleep on it. For now, I think the best thing you can do is step away from the computer and not make things worse.
In what respect is bringing attention to the words somebody chose to say in a public forum economic terrorism?
It’s all right! Mrs Deveny is entitled to her wrong opinion! I fought for my country. Is she saying me and all those men who fought for their country are WRONG? If that’s the case, defend yourselves next time!
Frank Burdett
See. Disagreement can be civil.Thanks Frank.
…..ofcourse Chrys youre entitled to post to your blog the way you feel I get that but lets hope your approach doesn’t bite you on the bum, my teenage girls passed around details & emails of folk they didnt really know during a recent cat fight on facebook, long story short I’ve never grounded them for this long.
Islamic die hard misogynist ideologues I’m related to also don’t consider collateral damage, just sayin
Chrys, a quick note of support and thanks for the reasoned discussion. I have a niece in the services, who jumped onto the burn Catherine Deveny merry-go-round, which I found out about via something nasty she’d posted to Facebook. Cut a long story short much heated family discussion and disagreement has ensued, and SilverBear has an opportunity to talk to ‘the young folk’ via this interweb thing about the wider discussion on bullies. Stay strong.
good morning chrys and all the athers people who commented
I do really do have PTSD
i also have dysleyia so my grammar is really bad sorry about that 🙂
Sorry about last night ,my son is doing a social media experiment/essay,on the the good,bad and the ugly side social media,
Do you mind if he use your link in his references list,yours isn’t the only one he has got,he has whole yr to do this,So he has your site book marked as all many ather sites referenced,
this research has been going on two weeks before ANZAC DAY his teacher asked them to comments on how and ANZAC means to you and how does make you feel,then CD twitter comments was out there, I had said to him why not go the ather way
His wonderful mother doesn’t have time for ANZAC day ,mothers day fathers day,birthdays,easter or even christmas,we all about kids and giving well round life,
when we went onto CD page he was sickin by all the comments targeted at CD “in his word that is so wrong i hope she’s ok ” he hates bulling of any type we have have always told our kids to think for yourselves dont fellow the sheep as I put it,
I do happen to think what CD said, has its place and merit, but I do draw the line at rape and murder, i did lose a friend day before ANZAC day due to PTSD and yes he was in army he spoke seven languages and yes miss him dearly,
I did have two grandfathers served who im very proud, of one in PNG and one in darwin
Im very sorry that your site was picked,I love good joke like the next person,as for john west comment that was ment as a joke, i dont think anyone got it my bad lol, once again im very sorry did this i hope you can forgive me about what I said its not how really thing,
PS if you wish your pic removed or names i will get him to do so for you privsy
I hope you didn’t mind it took both of us weeks to plan this we use marital many sites so sounded like them IM SO SORRY PLEASE FEEL HATE ME JOIN THE LIST hehehe
Peter, please tell your son he is welcome to use anything of mine that he likes for his assignment (provided he notes where it came from, of course). I am glad that he ‘gets it’. I think, perhaps, you do too, now.
My Dad was also in PNG but mostly based on Morotai. I spent 12 months fighting the DVA for a gold card for my elderly mum but they would never concede that Dad died prematurely because of the stress he endured during the war – not even after I proved their own military historian wrong!
For the record, in this argument, Dad would have agreed with Catherine. He wanted no part of ANZAC Day or the RSL and I think the way other veterans talked about women might have been one of the reasons he wanted nothing to do with them. He worshipped my mother and would have done anything for me. He was the ultimate gentleman. I hope your kids will be able to say that about you.
ok thanks i will let him know when he gets home,I will make sure does so in his bibliography its for english essay,i have been married to the greatest woman in the world well in my eyes anyway 16yr this yrs
Peter, having ‘slept on it’ and decided your apology was sincere, I have, this morning, deleted comments which identify you and your business.
This is not without some reservations. I doubt that, if I had not ‘outed’ you, you would have reconsidered your ANZAC Day remarks and apologised to Catherine Deveny.
You have children, Peter. I don’t know if they are sons or daughters. If sons, is this the way you would want your son to speak to a woman with whom he happens to disagree? What behaviour are you modeling for him? If you have a daughter, how would you feel if someone spoke to her as you did to Catherine?
Just because Catherine is a celebrity doesn’t mean she is not a real, flesh and blood, human being. Catherine is a wife and a mother, just like your wife. She works bloody hard – just like your wife. I’ve spoken to Catherine on the phone when she was totally exhausted from working all day, stirring a pot of fried rice to give her family a meal with one hand, and talking business to me on the phone while she cooked.
I’ll bet that reminds you of your wife, Peter. How would you like it if someone abused her the way you abused Catherine? How do you think Catherine’s partner, Anthony, feels about it? And her children? You worried about your children being bullied. How do you think Catherine’s children might fare when children see their parents happily abusing her on the internet as if that kind of behaviour is totally acceptable?
Catherine’s ANZAC Day remarks did not disrespect veterans, they disrespected war. For many flag-draped bogans, ANZAC Day and Australia Day have become nationalistic, jingoistic celebrations of ‘us’ (white Australians) against ‘them’ – immigrants, boat people, people who don’t share our political or religious views, etc. Politicians are not honouring the ANZACS on ANZAC Day – they are taking advantage of photo opportunities. If they really wanted to honour our diggers they would do something about the shocking state of the Department of Veterans’ Affairs and its abject failure to deal with veterans’ needs.
The men and women who abused Catherine on ANZAC Day did far more to disrespect our veterans than she did. Those serving and ex-servicemen and women who made foul, sexist remarks about her simply proved her point that sexist, degrading views of women and the idea that violence is acceptable if women ‘deserve’ it, are commonplace in the military. It doesn’t take much imagination to see how these kinds of attitudes, left unchallenged, lead to a rape culture.
Our own service women are being raped by their fellow soldiers and, until recently, military command has taken very little interest in this problem! Why should we doubt that foreign women have often been seen as ‘fair game’ for soldiers on deployment? Not all soldiers, of course. But Catherine was just stating the obvious when she spoke about the mistreatment of women during war. And you helped to prove her point.
I really want you to understand this, Peter. When you verbally abuse women with the kind of gendered language used to attack Deveny on ANZAC Day, you implicitly tell other men – and boys – that violence against women is OK, it’s normal, it’s acceptable because, well – because some loud mouthed bitches deserve it. It’s a short-step from there for men to think it’s also acceptable to hit women or even rape and murder them if they step out of line.
In Melbourne recently, Jill Meagher rejected the advances of a guy who approached her on the street as she was walking home after a night out with friends. Angry, he abducted her, raped her and killed her, no doubt thinking, “The bitch deserved it.” That is the kind of culture you are creating when you add to a conversation that suggests that a comedian should be raped or killed because she spoke out against ANZAC Day. THAT is the kind of world you are helping to create for the women you happen to love.
Equally, when you are on Facebook or Twitter or at the pub and men start talking about women like that and you don’t say, “Hold up, guys, that’s no way to talk about women!” you are allowing the idea that violence against women is OK.
I totally accept, Peter, that you may not be violent. But many, many men don’t just stop at verbal abuse. And you can’t say that verbal abuse doesn’t hurt women because it doesn’t leave physical bruises. Verbal abuse tells women – and young women in particular – that they should just shut up and be quiet and that they should certainly not challenge men’s ideas and men’s privilege. It tells them to be scared. It tells them that their opinions are not worth considering. Is that the message you want to send to your wife and, if you have one, your daughter?
This blog post was never about telling people they should agree with Deveny. I don’t agree with her completely. My view is somewhere between hers and yours. But the way to argue is not through abuse – it’s through reason. If you can’t mount a reasoned argument for why Deveny is wrong, you should just step away from the keyboard.
I hope you will stop and really think about why this is such a big issue for us.
Chrys
morning chrys Im man of my word I have e-mailed CD and said sorry about the way i have talked about her and her family i have ask her read what said and add your link to the e-mail,and told what i was doing, im truly sorry for what I have done,you are a amazing woman i love that you stand your ground i have two kids boy and girl and amazing wife whom i have loved for 25yrs married for 16 yrs, she to has gon though own hell because of her family and the christian school, and yes NO woman should ever be spoken to in that manner.
signing off for last time yours with care peter
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A glance shows some people call her a c**t .. Deveny called Tony Abbott a c**t.
Some tell her to be raped, Deveny slandered innocent men and woman as rapists this past ANZAC day and called for the rape of a child and refers to her own kids as sluts.
Sorry it is impossible to try to legitimize Deveny’s sadistic hate speech as political comment.. If you or others are anti ANZAC, don’t thank her, she has set back the concept a few decades.
This proves how stupid our population is…so much ignorant it is like I am swimming in a pool of animal feces. One day I will be in the financial position to leave…with that being said Deveny structures her comments in such a way to get a negative response so her name gets out there.
Actually, Shane, she doesn’t. Like her or loathe her, that’s just Dev. She may appear provocative, but her comments are not made to have that effect. To her, they seem perfectly reasonable. Some I agree with. Some have me groaning aloud. But, again, the way to address her comments is through reasoned commentary, not through abuse.
You give a lot of licence (to be abusive, violent and hateful) to Deveny and none to others who, after she has abused them, speak back to her at her own level. In fact you ‘out’ them as a threat. Hypocritical?
Would it have been better for your sense of right if some of the reactions to her hate speech had been more akin to paraphrasing her.. calling her a ‘rapist of her children’ or just simply calling her a c**t.. speaking to her in her own language and with her level of grace.
Rather than ask people be polite to an abusive hate speaker, maybe the lesson here is for Deveny.. to stop the abuse in the first place.
Say then your mother stood up at a community forum and hurled language at the local council planner. Suppose your mum had always been a bit of a loose cannon – slagging off at family functions and alienating family members. Say in response to your mother’s outrageous performance a male voice at the back of the room threatens your mother with rape while she is up to her elbow/neck in a cow’s vagina. What if she is then threatened with torture and death by a bunch of army boys. What if when you turn around you discover the voice has left the building. How would you feel? How would your mother feel? Your mother turns to you and says “Ah Fuck … would have been good to met him and talk more – but he’s pissed off”. You look at her and say “Bloody Hell Mum – this is what happens when you carry on like this – sigh”. Mum stands up tall and says “Well I dont give a rats … Im willing to own it ..where are these cunts? Im not seeing ownership here”
Rockethedog
Firstly, thank you for your work in outing these loathsome creatures.
Just two comments on this particular post –
“(God knows Catholic priests aren’t so particular!)”
I find it prejudiced and unfair to label all Catholic priests in this way. I am an atheist. Much of your blog derides bigotry (which is why I came here in the first place) but I do find this comment perpetuates a bigoted perception. To state the obvious – not all priests are sex offenders.
Let’s be a bit more intelligent and fair in our critique so that we can always take the moral and intellectual high-road 😉
Secondly, Nick Shackcloth’s comments about suggesting Catherine jump off a building were not associated with her being female. Your comment “encouraging women to jump off a building…” is trying to label this a sexist comment when in reality… it was (only!) a horrid and very stupid comment that should be condemned as such.
Catherine, I’m very upset to hear of all the terrible and sexist communications you have received. I hope you have good people around you that support you.
And to the writer of the anti-bogan blog, keep up the good work 🙂
Better late than never – I tripped over this today.
We [the RSL] will not shut out or turn away from any Australian who seeks our help, poses questions or remonstrates with us about issues with which they disagree with the RSL.
http://www.rsl.org.au/About-Us/Freedom-of-Expression
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