64 thoughts on “Your Handy Neighbourhood Guide to Bigots and Homophobes”

1. Leftymatt 10/09/2012 at 5:41 PM

   Chrys,

   A hearty congrats on pointing out the odiously regressive views of the Salvation Army. Their positions on drug law reform are similarly loathsome.

   No thinking progressive should give even a shilling to these tiresome uniformed devil dodgers.

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2. Gus Barnard 10/09/2012 at 6:54 PM

   Bloody Brilliant!!

   You may just want to re-check, “those who favour exclusion rather than exclusion” 🙂

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   1. Gladly, the Cross-Eyed Bear: Assorted Rants on Religion, Science, Politics and Philosophy from a bear of very little brain Post author10/09/2012 at 6:57 PM

      Fixed. Thanks.

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      1. chase 03/01/2014 at 4:19 PM

         Gladly,In the western world everyone is entitled to an opinion
         I am reminded of a gentleman from Holland who visited Australia last year.This person was giving lectures on the supposed dangers of Islam.Personally I do not agree with this fellow and do not see Islam as a real threat to our country.But What I saw on television horrified me,it was a mob of unruly people outside the venue the gentleman was lecturing in terrorizing him for voicing his opinion.I do not normally resort to labeling people or calling them names because I find it a sign of weakness but To me that was a form of tyranny and bigotry absolute.Gladly,Debate all you like and argue all you like, that’s good but if our freedom of speech is removed we will never get it back.
3. Fred 10/09/2012 at 8:56 PM

   wow, wow What a medieval lot of thinkers. What next burning at the stakes. Why does none of the above believe in a good kind, compassionate God who created all this diversity & celebrate.

   Instead selfrighteously bring insult by selectivness, petty & cruel demonising gays & other minorities
   for ” I am the Lords selfproclaimed mouthpice ” I am better than our Lord for I have written the Bible
   and am using it for my benefit. Halleluya so that.

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4. Abbie Noiraude 10/09/2012 at 9:14 PM

   Um…wondering the fact that no “Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints” (aka Mormons) are not mentioned. Since the most powerful nation on earth is considering voting into its highest office an LDS follower I think it vital that you include in the ‘bigots’ the Mormons.
   Thanks for your research and exposed list…love your work.

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   1. Eva Brych 11/09/2012 at 7:01 AM

      Not surprised. Many in the ACL list would probably consider Mormonism a cult, the Book of Mormon a fraud and not want to be associated.

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5. Eva Brych 11/09/2012 at 7:21 AM

   Like a mighty tortoise
   Moves the church of God
   Brothers we are treading
   Where we’ve always trod
   We are all divided
   Many bodies we
   Strong in laws and doctrines
   Weak in chariteee..

   Onward Christian Soldiers etc.

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6. Louella 11/09/2012 at 8:33 AM

   I have a young friend who married into the Salvation Army and works hard to support gay members and improve conditions for them within the church. I think it’s frequently the case that the problem lies with those higher up, rather than the grass roots church goers. (I still refuse to donate to them.)

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7. Phil Browne 12/09/2012 at 8:09 AM

   Sadly this sort of crap from the religious right is disturbing, but not unexpected.

   Once again, I love your work Chrys and appreciate your research on the topic. I suspect they will keep giving you lots of ammunition and we will be hearing lots more from these very sad unChristian people.

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8. dandare2050 12/09/2012 at 11:33 PM

   Woot! A handy dandy list. I can print it out in smaller font and keep it with me as field guide. Thanks.

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   1. Gladly, the Cross-Eyed Bear: Assorted Rants on Religion, Science, Politics and Philosophy from a bear of very little brain Post author12/09/2012 at 11:40 PM

      You may have invented a new sport – bigot spotting! Keep your guide with you and when you pass one of the listed bigoted churches, tick it off your list. Far more fun than finding the rare red breasted spotted warbler or the Number 736 train from Finchley!

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      1. chase 03/01/2014 at 5:06 PM

         Gladly,would you agree to a group of males who argued it was their right to share the female toilets at your work place because they thought it was nicer and more comfortable there. If you disagreed with their request then by your admissions on this forum it would make you a bigot,right?,they would call you a racist and holler equal rights for all.
         If we do not have boundaries dear chaos ensues
9. johnnyp76 04/10/2012 at 3:44 AM

   It certainly is a problem, but one can understand why, from a theological perspective. There is no easy way out of homophobia from a biblical point of view, unless one jettisons the OT. But then the NT has its equally ‘odious’ opinions.
   http://skepticink.com/tippling/2012/10/02/christianity-and-homosexuality-part-1/

   At least Christianity is more malleable than Islam! As human rights progress in line with societal morality, it is religion which is left behind.

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   1. Darryl Stott 04/10/2012 at 5:25 AM

      Definition of a bigot “a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.” You brand me this because I believe the best thing is to not change the Marriage Act? Hmmm…

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      1. Gladly, the Cross-Eyed Bear: Assorted Rants on Religion, Science, Politics and Philosophy from a bear of very little brain Post author04/10/2012 at 8:07 AM

         Yes, Darryl. I brand anyone who does not support full equality for all Australian citizens a bigot. What would you call those Americans in the 50s and 60s who so noisily opposed racial integration while waving about their Bibles, shonky scholarship, and cries of ‘tradition’ to try to mask their racism? Of course they didn’t think they were bigots (I’m not racist, but ….). They rationalised their opposition to equal rights for all by saying the Negro population were unhealthy, dangerous, poorly socialized, biologically inferior, didn’t really want to be equal etc. in order to rationalise their deep-seated hatred. The same kinds of people are now using exactly the same kinds of strategies against full equality for the LGBTIQ community. It is unconscionable, it is petty, it is based on no reasonable evidence, and yes, Darryl, it is plain, unvarnished bigotry. Further, may I point out that the aim is simply to change the Marriage Act BACK to what it was before John Howard changed it in 2004? We are talking about undoing a long tradition of … 8 years. And now, Darryl, I’d thank you to leave my blog. I do not tolerate bigots in my social circle, in my home, or here on my blog. And if that’s intolerant, I’m very, very proud to be intolerant.
      2. johnnyp76 04/10/2012 at 4:47 PM

         Well said, Gladly. Love you final lines.
      3. chase 03/01/2014 at 12:51 PM

         The gay marriage debate does not really bother me because homosexual unions and heterosexual marriage will always be two completely different things.God defined marriage, it is unique to the Isaelites and Christianity,sure other cultures had unions similar to marriage but these unions had no spiritual meaning.The meaning of marriage is to reflect the relationship of CHRIST and the church.
         Darryl I am a passionate believer of free speech for everyone and your post here is a shot between the eyes and has exposed the true fascists and bigots out there,well done.
      4. Gladly, the Cross-Eyed Bear: Assorted Rants on Religion, Science, Politics and Philosophy from a bear of very little brain Post author03/01/2014 at 12:53 PM

         You know when you start calling people who disagree with you ‘fascists’ you lose both your credibility and the argument, don’t you?
   2. chase 03/01/2014 at 1:14 PM

      Firstly there is not such condition as ”Homophobia”the term is only used by simpletons.Secondly homosexuality is not a human rights issue ,that’s nonsense homosexuals are just human beings with a preference for same sex partners and enjoy all rights heterosexuals do.

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      1. Gladly, the Cross-Eyed Bear: Assorted Rants on Religion, Science, Politics and Philosophy from a bear of very little brain Post author03/01/2014 at 1:19 PM

         Homophobia has come to mean people who oppose equal rights for homosexuals. Homosexuals do not have the same rights as heterosexuals as our law currently denies them the right to marry the person they love. Homosexuality is not a lifestyle choice. If you believe that sexuality is chosen, consider: when did you choose to be heterosexual and could you choose to be attracted to someone of the same sex?
      2. Eric 05/01/2017 at 12:25 AM

         Wow I have read all this I have a son who is Gay I pray for him every day, I love him he is my son I would die for him, But I cannot support and would not support or attend a marriage between him and another male. The only Bigot i see here is the author of this post who just wants to roast people with convictions that don’t agree with theirs. All are deserving of God’s love and forgiveness, but on this matter the word of God is clear man shall not lay with man as he does with woman Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13. God bless and apologies if I have caused any offense.
   3. Margaret 30/10/2018 at 12:24 PM

      You can jettison the OT and you can limit your reading of the NT to the words and deeds of Jesus. This will give you a much better idea of what Christianity is all about.

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10. johnnyp76 04/10/2012 at 4:47 PM

    Love YOUR final lines, even…

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11. Darryl Stott 04/10/2012 at 5:00 PM

    Ha Ha proud to be a bigot eh? At least that’s something you can be proud of! It sounds a lot like heterophobia . You described yourself very well.

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    1. Gladly, the Cross-Eyed Bear: Assorted Rants on Religion, Science, Politics and Philosophy from a bear of very little brain Post author04/10/2012 at 5:27 PM

       Might be a little hard to be heterophobic – given that I’m straight, Darryl. It may not have occurred to you that just because you support equal rights for homosexuals and same-sex marriage it doesn’t mean you’re gay. Now, thank you for your contribution. My tolerance of you has ended. If you’re perplexed please read my moderation policy.

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       1. palmboy 04/10/2012 at 10:32 PM

          LOL @ Darryl
12. Harry 08/12/2012 at 12:27 PM

    This article lacks logic and I would suggest very judgemental. You group people, brand them then judge them. You probably have not met them personally, or spoken to them. You appear to be doing the very same thing you accuse them of doing.

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13. Rev Boris Kleiner 11/09/2013 at 11:41 AM

    Hey all 🙂 just got wind of this site, thanks for the mention, but, ain’t no big thing! The jst folks that want to get hitched, shit I’ll wed them all free and roll a fat one to seal the deal 😉 Thanks again and keep the religious cranks in line. Good shit indeed! Rev Boris Kleiner P.S Legalise Cannabis, please 😉

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14. Chrys Stevenson 03/01/2014 at 4:48 PM

    Chase said above:
    03/01/2014 at 4:19 PM
    Gladly,In the western world everyone is entitled to an opinion
    I am reminded of a gentleman from Holland who visited Australia last year.This person was giving lectures on the supposed dangers of Islam.Personally I do not agree with this fellow and do not see Islam as a real threat to our country.But What I saw on television horrified me,it was a mob of unruly people outside the venue the gentleman was lecturing in terrorizing him for voicing his opinion.I do not normally resort to labeling people or calling them names because I find it a sign of weakness but To me that was a form of tyranny and bigotry absolute.Gladly,Debate all you like and argue all you like, that’s good but if our freedom of speech is removed we will never get it back.
    —————–

    Chase, as some long forgotten philosopher once observed, “Opinions are like arse holes, everyone’s got one.”

    Just because everyone has an opinion doesn’t mean they are equally valuable, true or benign.

    There is this quaint Christian belief that when you hold Christian bigotry and lies up for scrutiny you are somehow endangering said Christian’s ‘freedom of speech’. Because I refuse to publish the worst kinds of malicious homophobic comments here on my blog I’ve been told I am impeding the ‘free speech’ of those good Christians who don’t seem to care that their willful ignorance and dogged determination to maintain their own privilege results in untold psychological and physical harm to homosexuals – particularly teens.

    Freedom of speech means only that you have a right to speak publicly without being jailed. It doesn’t mean you have a right to be exempt from criticism. Nor does it mean that anyone has a responsibility to provide you with a forum to spruik your arrant nonsense.

    Please, don’t peddle the free speech bullshit here. People have a right to say whatever they wish and I will defend that right (up to a point). However, speaking publicly (and ignorantly) on any given subject implicitly invites others in the public square to criticise, tear apart, mock and expose those who unwisely choose to orate out of their backsides.

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    1. chase 03/01/2014 at 6:44 PM

       Their are a lot of lies and misconceptions on the subject of homosexuality that I would like to hold up to scrutiny and back up with evidence but I have a suspicion that my time on this site is short and my cord will be cut.
       You mentioned in your last post ”just because everyone has an opinion dosen’t mean they are equally valuable,true or benign” what did you mean by [THEY].
       Just one other thing dear, unless you are Kim Jong Un free speech is not bullshit,the purpose for a comments page is to comment, albeit in a civil and tolerant way.Good day.

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       1. Gladly, the Cross-Eyed Bear: Assorted Rants on Religion, Science, Politics and Philosophy from a bear of very little brain Post author03/01/2014 at 7:15 PM

          You won’t be here bloody long if you keep calling me ‘dear’. It’s rude and patronising. Quit it.
       2. Gladly, the Cross-Eyed Bear: Assorted Rants on Religion, Science, Politics and Philosophy from a bear of very little brain Post author04/01/2014 at 8:27 AM

          You have a hide! You come onto my blog, patronise me, ignore my request to mind your manners, misrepresent my comments, compare me to a psychopathic dictator, then assert your right to do so by invoking free speech.

          You have no rights here. This is my personal blog. You have no more ‘right’ to come here and spew your nonsense than I have to come into your church or living room and start expounding my views on atheism.

          What a fine example of Christianity you are: rude, boorish, condescending and assuming privileges you have no right to. Fuck off.
15. Chrys Stevenson 03/01/2014 at 5:26 PM

    Chase said (above): chase says:
    03/01/2014 at 5:06 PM (Edit)
    Gladly,would you agree to a group of males who argued it was their right to share the female toilets at your work place because they thought it was nicer and more comfortable there. If you disagreed with their request then by your admissions on this forum it would make you a bigot,right?,they would call you a racist and holler equal rights for all.
    If we do not have boundaries dear chaos ensues.

    —————
    Chase:

    1. My name is Chrys. It’s written very clearly at the bottom of the post and on my comment to you. Gladly, the Cross-Eyed Bear is the name of the blog. You are not, as it happens, addressing a cross-eyed bear.

    2. Don’t patronise me. I am not your ‘dear’. See, I have boundaries, too.

    Your example is specious. Personally, if I had a workplace at which there were toilets I would be very happy to do away with ‘men’s’ and ‘ladies’ – I’ve actually never seen the point. Unisex would be fine with me. And if the ladies’ loos were actually nicer and more comfortable, I wouldn’t blame the lads from feeling they’d been hard done by.

    I have often used men’s loos and amenities blocks when the ladies’ loos were either fully engaged, closed for cleaning or (as happened once in Paris) the hot water in the ladies’ showers ran out, but the men still had plenty.

    Marriage is not like public amenities. Allowing same-sex couples to marry does not place a homosexual couple into your marital home. It does not require you to ‘share’ your marriage with them. It does not even require that you approve of their marriage. Australia is a secular state. Marriage is not owned by the church or its adherents. Marriage is a civil contract between two people who wish to spend the rest of their lives together (or as long as they can stand each other).

    In a secular state, civil institutions should be available, equally, to all citizens, regardless of race, sex, sexuality or other distinction.

    Most Australians reject the church as the venue for their wedding and opt for celebrants rather than religious officiants. It’s been a very long time since the church had any claim on marriage in Australia – that horse has bolted.

    The bottom line is that there is no cogent reason to exclude same-sex couples from access to civil marriage. It has no deleterious effect on others, it does not diminish your marriage in any way. It does not ‘encourage’ same-sex couples to have and/or adopt children – they’re making families anyway. Research confirms that having same-sex parents has no deleterious effect on children – there may even be some advantages. But research also suggests that the children of both same-sex and heterosexual couples benefit when their parents are married. So, by denying marriage to same-sex couples, you are also, effectively, denying an advantage to their children.

    The only disadvantage I can see to the children of same sex couples is that homophobes and bigots are determined to paint their parents as ‘unnatural’ and deny their families the same rights and status as other Australians. The bigots and homophobes will spread their hateful views to their children who will carry them into the school yard to taunt those children whose parents happen to be gay and then, quelle suprise, the bigots and homophobes will shake their heads and say, in all seriousness, “Look! See! It’s unfair to let these people marry, see how their children suffer.”

    What was it Jesus said about hypocrites?

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16. Johnsy 22/02/2014 at 7:08 AM

    This story is deceitful in every respect, the pro slavery party the democrats fought against the bible reading president lincon who wanted to free the slaves , Martin Luther king was black a Bible believer and fought for racial equality, people suffering same sex attraction are helped incredibly by exodus and other fine Christian ministries and 90% are going straight , you are I’ll informed pro anything my way or Ithrow a tantram liar

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    1. Gladly, the Cross-Eyed Bear: Assorted Rants on Religion, Science, Politics and Philosophy from a bear of very little brain Post author22/02/2014 at 9:13 AM

       Oh, Johnsy, you’re going to have to come up with a better argument if you’re going to come on to my blog and call me a liar.

       1. The American Psychiatric Association, is the main professional association for psychiatrists in the USA has 38,000 professional members. That makes it the largest psychiatric organization in the world. The APA has made its position crystal clear on the efficacy of conversion therapy.
       In fact, the efficacy of gay conversion therapy is refuted by every major medical and mental health association in the USA, representing 477,000 professionals. These include the National Association of Social Workers and the American Academy of Pediatrics, In fact, Jack Drescher, chair of the American Psychiatric Association’s Committee on Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual Issues, labeled reparative therapy as fraudulent, likening it to the fraudulent cancer cure, laetril. (See: http://www.thetaskforce.org/downloads/reports/reports/YouthInTheCrosshairs.pdf)

       2. In 2011, the Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives, the Attorney General of the United States, Eric H Holder, acknowledged that “while sexual orientation carries no visible badge, a growing scientific consensus accepts that sexual orientation is a characteristic that is immutable” In other words, the overwhelming majority of experts agree that conversion therapy does not and cannot work. (See: http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2011/February/11-ag-223.html)

       3. Exodus International, one of the major proponents of conversion therapy, ceased its activities in June 2013 and issued a statement repudiating its aims and apologizing for the harm the organization had caused to LGBT people. Admitting that Exodus had a ‘99.9 per cent failure rate’ (See: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wayne-besen/2012-many-celebrations-few-setbacks_b_2388887.html) Exodus president, Alan Chambers said, “I am sorry for the pain and hurt many of you have experienced. I am sorry that some of you spent years working through the shame and guilt you felt when your attractions didn’t change.” Chambers admitted that even his own same-sex attraction persisted. (See: http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2013/june/alan-chambers-apologizes-to-gay-community-exodus.html)

       4. Dr Robert Spitzer, one of the USA’s most influential psychiatrist once delivered a paper stating that some gay men and lesbians can change their sexual orientation. In 2012, Spitzer said: “In retrospect, I have to admit I think the critiques are largely correct. The findings can be considered evidence for what those who have undergone ex-gay therapy say about it, but nothing more.” He acknowledged that the paper was ‘fatally flawed’ and said he had asked for it to be retracted. Further he said: “I believe I owe the gay community an apology for my study making unproven claims of the efficacy of reparative therapy.” (See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Spitzer_(psychiatrist))

       5. In 2012, the Pan American Health Organization, an international body, is the world’s oldest international public health agency. It is associated with the World Health Organization and the United Nations. In a statement in 2012, Paho director, Dr Mirta Roses Periago said:

       “Since homosexuality is not a disorder or a disease, it does not require a cure. There is no medical indication for changing sexual orientation.” She said that practices known as “reparative therapy” or “conversion therapy” represent “a serious threat to the health and well-being — even the lives — of affected people.” (See: http://www.paho.org/hq/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6803&Itemid=1926)

       The PAHO statement “notes that no rigorous scientific studies demonstrate any efficacy of efforts to change sexual orientation. However, there are many testimonies about the severe harm to mental and physical health that such “services” can cause.”

       So, Johnsy, the group you cite as doing ‘fine work’ in reparative therapy has closed down after admitting its own failure (99.9 per cent) and the harm it has caused. I have shown that the overwhelming majority of experts dismiss conversion therapy as ineffective and dangerous. Now, tell me, dear, who is the liar here?

       Big tip, Johnsy, don’t come on to this blog, call me a liar, spout a heap of bullshit and expect to get away with it.

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       1. dandare2050 11/01/2017 at 6:55 PM

          When I grow up I want to be just like you Chrys. That was an awesome reply.
17. Alicia 03/05/2014 at 11:47 PM

    What an awesome site! I am certainly going to NOT buy any Gloria Jeans coffee in future! Glad I read it. I was put off Christianity due to the bigotry and homophobia. It is refreshing to see that people can have religious beliefs and support gay rights. It was sad to see so many organisations and church leaders lobby to government to ‘keep the sanctity of marriage’ what a load of bollocks!

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18. George Synonym 05/12/2014 at 10:20 PM

    What you fail to recognise, dear writer of this article, that calling those who uphold what God, the creator, has clearly declared in His holy word is an abomination as bigots, is that you, sorry to say this dear writer, are the real bigot, because you choose to disobey the creator and choose to live an abominable life.

    Sin has brought about this abomination of homosexuality and not God. In the beginning God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. Consider this logic, if all homosexual men and all homosexual women were separated from society and from the opposite sex, as they so clamour not to be with, and placed on separate desert islands for 50 plus years, they will all die out. God said be fruitful and multiply. The natural process of that is through a married and loving relationship between a man and a woman,

    If my dear writer you are so keen to quote scripture, what does the following mean? What about Jude 1 verse 7 that clearly states the following:

    “Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

    The word Sodomy comes from Sodom. What about this verse, Leviticus 20.13:

    “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them”

    Why argue with the ministers that are following God’s word honestly? You cannot use slavery etc as an excuse to justify your abominable lifestyle, humble yourself before your creator and instead seek help to be cured of your condition. Truly, it is an abomination.

    The Apostle Paul wrote in Romans 1. 26-28 under the inspiration of our creator:

    “For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
    And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
    And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;”

    If you do not want to serve God correctly, you will be left to your reprobate lifestyle. Those ministers that condone this lifestyle, are not true followers of God, they are unfortunately false witnesses.

    Finally, Jesus died for you. Come to Him and He will wash you white as snow, but you cannot remain in that lifestyle. Your choice dear friend.

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    1. Gladly, the Cross-Eyed Bear: Assorted Rants on Religion, Science, Politics and Philosophy from a bear of very little brain Post author05/12/2014 at 10:39 PM

       This one was too hilariously pompous not to approve for publication.

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       1. dandare2050 11/01/2017 at 6:58 PM

          🙂 what a sanctimonious maroon. Doesn’t realise that the bible as interpreted is itself spouting bigotry by the megaton.
19. Kyles 22/01/2015 at 9:04 AM

    Chrys,

    I applaud you for this article.

    For too long, people have let religion dictate how they should act and feel. For too long people have allowed religion to tell them how to think.

    What I want to know is…how would these naysayers feel if one of their children told them they were gay? Would they spout bible crap at them, or accept them as they are (and as God made them) – a human being??

    To those who say homosexuality is not genetic…I beg to differ.
    My ‘family’ has ten first-gen cousins…three are gay, four are bisexual.
    I grew up with a gay brother; our best friends – a brother and sister – were also gay.

    To the homophobes…
    GROW UP! We are human just like you. We live, work, eat, breathe, procreate. Our blood is the same color as yours.
    The only difference between homosexuals and heterosexuals is the gender of the person they share their bed with.

    Love doesn’t discriminate. People and religion do.

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20. Pingback: Christians Supporting Equal Marriage | Gladly, the Cross-Eyed Bear

21. Andrew Bush 29/06/2015 at 12:11 PM

    I note a few references to the Old testament and, by implication, to verses like “man shall not lie with a man as with a woman”. People see these verses as anti-gay or homophobic. They are not and were never a comment on what could be called “homosexual sexual activity”, (I am trying to use a neutral term here).

    These verses in the Old Testament arose out of a residual sense of guilt from when the Israelites conquered Canaan. This was done village by village and town by town and in some towns the Israelites simply slaughtered the men, women, and children, whilst in others they first raped the men, women, and children and then slaughtered them. These verses have absolutely nothing to do with, and bear no relationship to, sexual activity between two (or more people) who are of the same gender. It should be noted there have been a notable number of theologians who have carefully researched and written about the true meaning of these verses and I can’t list them all here. Let me name one and this is Professor Steven Patterson, (I think it is) who is the George Atkinson Professor of Religious Studies and Theology at Willamette University in Salem Origen in the US, and has been a Director of the Westar Institute, now also based at the University.

    Regretfully, it seems to me that there are some, all too many, Christians who will interpret or misinterpret verses to suit their own purposes, rather than seriously research and understand the verses’ origins and true meanings.

    Andrew Bush.

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22. Penny 13/01/2016 at 3:33 PM

    Good read. Thanks for sticking it to the SALVOS, about time they dropped the pious act.
    I had the misfortune of recently being engaged to the son of a very high ranking SALVO family. Im an atheist but thought they were okay with a divorced mum, since said son, a policeman and lay minister, was twice divorced himself.
    The engagement ring was quick but lots of stalling on the wedding ring – had to give me time to learn to fit in etc, pfft. What I learnt instead was the dubious history of some family members, assorted very unSALVO behaviour that everyone confidentally covered up with no shame or apology.
    The end was swift and brutal once the local school contacted myself and the police having discovered my fiance, the policeman/lay minister, had repeatedly indecently assaulted my mentally disabled little boy. He ran and hid while his family and church legals protected him. He stole a large amount of money and property from me, leaving me almost destitute.
    Meanwhile hes back suckling from mummys wealthy tit, a wealth I cant afford to fight. Coz you know, its okay to sin if you ask Jesus for forgiveness….repeatedly!!!

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23. Andrew Bush 13/01/2016 at 4:57 PM

    Here we go again. People quoting the Bible, with absolutely no understanding of what a verse means, or the original cause of it being spoken, (i.e. initially part of the oral tradition) and then written in to the Old Testament. I refer in this comment to the words in the Old Testament “You shall not lie with a man as with a woman”, which so many bigoted people use to say any sexual activity between people of the same gender is wrong. This verse, and the several others like it, have absolutely nothing to do with gay sexual activity. These verses arose because, when the Israelite people conquered Canaan they did so by slaughtering at times every man, woman, and child in the villages and towns, and at times in raping first every man, woman, and child in the villages and towns and then slaughtering them. This caused a residual sense of guilt about the use of rape as a weapon of domination and war, which became considered wrong, and hence the verses along the lines above were written, to be against such a use of rape. There have been many theologians who have written on this subject, (and by many I mean hundreds), but let me refer the doubting Thomas’s to one, who is the George Atkinson Professor of Theology at the Willamette University in Salem, Oregon, USA, who’s name is Professor Stephen Patterson. It is worth noting that, when these verses are properly understand, as are their origins, there is no verse in the Old Testament that even comments on gay sexual activity. There is a comment, an ambiguous comment at that, in the New Testament written by Paul, or redacted in to his writings, that may refer to such sexual activity, but even this is uncertain. Incidentally, all of my university qualifications are in theology, except for one undergraduate degree in which I gained three majors in Religious Studies / Theology, (these being i) Biblical Studies, ii) The History of Christian Thought, and iii) Systematic Theology); but, not being allowed to take a fourth major in Religious Studies / Theology, I did my fourth major in Government / Politics, another area of interest of mine. I also attended and studied at two theological colleges, but found university study as having academic independence and integrity, whereas the theological college studies didn’t have anywhere near the same level of academic independence and integrity.

    Thus, those who wish to quote verses from scripture, out of context and not in harmony with the teaching of the whole bible, should first learn the context that gave rise to the verses they quote, and what the verses actually meant and continue to mean. This is Integrity!

    Andrew Bush.

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    1. carmelo 10/01/2017 at 4:39 PM

       Hi Andrew, I thought I would sieve through your post of 455 words and attempt to do mine in less, don’t know if I succeeded.

       Really good gutsy discussion by the way, almost as good as watching my favourite t.v show Poirot.
       Your qualifications are most impressive.
       It seem’s to me that you have used the word bigot for someone who does not agree with you.

       I am not a bigot and will have any hetrosexual, homosexual or transgender as a best friend if it were possible and I actually don’t agree one bit with their position.

       I disagree totally with muslims and their world view yet I have kurdish muslims friends who have become closer to me than family who are from Iraq. We are so tightly knitted together I would say.
       We have some pretty hot fiery debates, as Im a Sicilian and heck they are middle eastern yet we get on closer than family, to the point that we would take a bullet for each other.
       Am I bigot because I totally and utterly reject Islam and it’s teachings or are they bigots because they reject Christ and His teachings ?

       Can you please also make comment on this please :

       In Genesis chapter 2 verse 24, written by Moses we have:
       Therefore shall a man (MALE) leave his father (MALE) and his mother (FEMALE), and shall cleave unto his wife (FEMALE): and they shall be one flesh.

       In Mathew 19 verse 5, we have Jesus Christ himself saying:
       And said, For this cause shall a man (MALE) leave father (MALE) and mother (FEMALE), and shall cleave to his wife (FEMALE): and they twain shall be one flesh?

       In Ephesians 5 verse 31 we have the apostle Paul saying:
       For this cause shall a man (MALE) leave his father (MALE) and mother (FEMALE) , and shall be joined to his wife (FEMALE) , and they two shall be one flesh.

       You force me to aske the question, did Moses, Paul and God wrapped in himan flesh not understand these scriptures also ?

       Just for the record I am not yours nor anyones enemy, simply because I disagree with you.
       If your ever in the state of western australia feel free to come round for dinner anytime.
       Just let me know your dietary requirements if you have any.

       Romans 8 verse 8:
       If it is possible as far as depends on you, live at peace with everyone.

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       1. Gladly, the Cross-Eyed Bear: Assorted Rants on Religion, Science, Politics and Philosophy from a bear of very little brain Post author10/01/2017 at 4:47 PM

          You are, indeed, a bigot as you would deny the right of a person to equal treatment in our society based on a characteristic they did not choose and cannot change. You place a book, written by various human authors, thousands of years ago, above the dignity, rights, health and happiness of real people living NOW.

          You base your knowledge on Bronze Age writing, rather than the overwhelming opinions of the medical and psychology experts who confirm that homosexuality is no more chosen nor can be changed than your eye colour.

          Yes, you are a bigot. And your “some of my best friends …” defence disgusts me.
       2. carmelo 10/01/2017 at 7:16 PM

          Hi I actually have no idea who I am replying to, so if I could know that would be great.

          You said:
          “You are, indeed, a bigot as you would deny the right of a person to equal treatment in our society based on a characteristic they did not choose and cannot change. You place a book, written by various human authors, thousands of years ago, above the dignity, rights, health and happiness of real people living NOW.
          You base your knowledge on Bronze Age writing, rather than the overwhelming opinions of the medical and psychology experts who confirm that homosexuality is no more chosen nor can be. Hanged than your eye colour.
          Yes, you are a bigot. And your “some of my best friends …” defence disgusts me ”

          I say:
          Why would I deny the right to someone practicing there homosexuality, can you please quote me where I said that in my response ?
          I did say I don’t agree with their position I can never recall a comment that I would deny them their right to practice ? Please quote me on this.
          Why I would I expect someone who is not at peace with God to want to follow His ways when instead they live according to their own picking and choosing from world view son how to live life ?
          What is your point of reference from which you differntiate what is and what is not a biggot ?
          From which world view does this come from ?

          You also said ” And your “some of my best friends …” defence disgusts me ”

          Can you please tell me why they disgust you as they don’t disgust my friends ?
          Are my muslim friends bigots because they violently oppose my Christainity ?

          Have you read some of the bronze aged book and especially the revolutionary claimes and teachings specifically of Jesus Christ ?

          Hope you have a wonderful evening
       3. Gladly, the Cross-Eyed Bear: Assorted Rants on Religion, Science, Politics and Philosophy from a bear of very little brain Post author10/01/2017 at 7:31 PM

          I’m Chrys Stevenson.

          What part of “LGBTIQ people don’t *choose* their sexual orientation” don’t you understand. When did you decide to be heterosexual?

          You and your fellow theists apply political pressure to deny LGBTIQ people the right to marry the person they love. Your insistence that homosexuality is a choice – and a sinful one – creates a toxic culture which demonises LGBTIQ people and leads them to far higher rates of depression, self harm, substance abuse, suicidal ideation and suicide than the general population. This is not caused by their homosexuality, but by the culture you and your fellow ‘Christians’ help to create and reinforce. It is harmful and despicable.

          You are a passive aggressive twat. Your veneer of politeness does not hide the hateful ignorance that lies beneath. You have absolutely no regard for the immense harm your antediluvian prejudice causes. You ignore the opinions of experts on this subject because you hubristically believe God is as hateful as you. Fortunately the majority of Christians disagree with your uninformed fundamentalism.
       4. Carmelo 11/01/2017 at 1:39 AM

          Nice to meet you to Chrys,

          Can i ask if you could refrain from the nasty, voiciferous, hostile adhominem remarks and stay strictly on the topic, I can pretend to be your enemy if that helps you any, however you will never b mine because of any serious disagreement on worldviews.

          Again may i ask where and when i personally said that i demanded you to stop practicing your homosexuality ?

          Again may I ask, are my lovely Muslim friends bigots because they violently oppose the person, claims and some of the teachings of Jesus Christ ?

          The majority of Christians disagree with my position you say ? It all depends wether we take your definition of a Christian or Christ’s and the new testaments definition. I suggest the latter definition is the correct one and not your redifined one.

          It seems to me your approach is just like the extreme forms of religion of which you are so critical. May i ask why this approach ?

          Have a wonderful night
       5. Gladly, the Cross-Eyed Bear: Assorted Rants on Religion, Science, Politics and Philosophy from a bear of very little brain Post author11/01/2017 at 2:24 AM

          Two things. Why would you assume I’m gay because I am an advocate for gay rights? Do you really think the LGBTIQ community stand alone against you lot? Not at all! I’m not the least bit offended to be called gay. But I’m bemused that you never even considered I might be straight!

          Second, are you so smug you’re saying ‘no true Christian’ would disagree with your uneducated and bigoted interpretation of the Bible? You ass!

          Third, calling someone a twat or an ass is not an ad hominem attack. You are trying hard to sound more educated than you are. Hint. Don’t use big words if you don’t know what they mean. An ad hominem attack would be, “You’re a Christian therefore you must be wrong.”

          In fact, I pointed out that you are an outlier and most Christians disagree with you.

          I engaged with your argument, AND I called you a twat and an ass. That is not ad hominem. See here: http://the-orbit.net/lousycanuck/2011/09/15/what-is-an-ad-hominem-what-isnt/

          So now you have learned three new things – that sexual orientation is neither chosen, nor changeable, that you shouldn’t use big words or Latin terms you don’t know the meaning of, and that you are a twat and an ass. I think that’s sufficient free instruction for now. Goodbye.
24. unknown 15/01/2016 at 11:21 PM

    I am Christian. My parents are very religious. And I have in the past few years developed a different outlook on this subject. Would God who loves all his creation, never hates only loves. (He is a god of love) would he ever hate someone for “loving” someone else, despite who they are? When has loving another human being become a sin. Are we not saposed to live our lives and be a light to the world and love everyone as God does? Is this not our responsibility as Christians? We do not have the right to judge others. Only God can judge all we can do is love. Would these Christians with so much hate in their hearts for these people be able to look a parent in the eyes who had lost a child to suicide because of who they are. Would they blame these parents? People do not ask for such things. If they had a choice to avoid the hurt and discrimination would they not choose to be “straight”. We are not here to judge or bring pain upon society. We are here to be a light.. to be an example of faith, hope , and love. You may not need to accept it, but you have no right to judge. Be the Christian god longs for us to be. Fight with love, hope and peace. Share gods love..

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25. nknown 15/01/2016 at 11:23 PM

    I love and accept all people. And pray for those who are lost without faith and hope.

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    1. Gladly, the Cross-Eyed Bear: Assorted Rants on Religion, Science, Politics and Philosophy from a bear of very little brain Post author16/01/2016 at 6:17 AM

       I appreciate your previous comment, but this is extremely condescending and somewhat passive aggressive.

       You are perfectly entitled to your own beliefs. But, because I do not share your beliefs, I am certainly neither lost nor without hope.

       How would you like it if you were described thus because of your lack of faith in Allah, or Thor or some Wiccan a Goddess?

       And, please do not be so rude as to impose your prayers upon those who did not ask for them. Again, how would you feel if some Wiccan, deciding you were lost and without hope for not believing in their faith, elected to use your name in their incantations on an effort to bring you to their way of thinking?

       Of course, a pagan would never be so bad mannered, but you will appreciate the analogy, I hope.

       I thoroughly approve of you rethinking your religion and discarding its tendency to make narrow-minded, hateful, interfering bigots out of people.

       But now, instead of turning your attention to my short-comings, I suggest you learn about manners, humility and respect for those who do not share your views.

       You do not have permission to pray for me.

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       1. Flybynite 05/12/2016 at 12:03 AM

          Just browsing and passing on through here …. was taken by your comment,
          ‘you do not have permission to pray for me’.
          Made me think of John chapter 17: 6 where Jesus prays for those believers in Him, but not for the world.
          I think even the Lord of heaven and earth respects our choice to be prayed for .. .. and will wait for our response to his invitation to follow Him … or not.
          And at the end of the day, that remains between every individual and Him.
26. Jonathan Sharma 06/02/2016 at 1:45 PM

    Just out of curiosity, how come I don’t see anyone with the guts to rally openly (not in whispers behind closed doors) about having a march against radical militant religion that will gradually not only take over Australia as it is in currently in and the Europe and other parts of the world, but will also wipe the slate clean of anyone who stands against it, and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know that it for sure would mince the above issues mentioned – you know what I mean. Anyone care to speak out or answer – THEM openly. . . ???

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27. Eddie Olsen 05/09/2016 at 10:14 PM

    Do you actually have any idea exactly what a “homophobe” is?
    According to Merriam-Webster, it means “a person who hates or is afraid of homosexuals or treats them badly”.
    It certainly has nothing to do with disagreeing with someone over whether or not there should be changes to our legal definitions.

    Please, before you start accusing someone of hating homosexuals, being afraid of them, of treating them badly, maybe you should stop writing such hateful articles against people that you do not even know.

    Yes, my name is on your “list of shame”, and no, I am certainly NOT homophobic.

    Pastor Eddie Olsen,

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    1. Flybynite 08/12/2016 at 4:11 PM

       Agree Eddie.

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28. rx 15/10/2016 at 7:32 PM

    Interesting to see you let a lot of comments and free speak and discussion. I would not expect this at any of the churches run by the leaders mentioned above. I pretty sure Jusus would not get a hearing in them either.

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    1. Flybynite 08/12/2016 at 4:00 PM

       Have you been to the above churches?
       Go! Ask questions. Ask what God has to say in the scriptures. Say why you believe they are wrong … or why the Creator got it wrong … but go to hear the truth.
       You may come away unchanged in your thinking, but if they are genuine Christians you will have found no more or less than ordinary people who claim to know Jesus, the friend of sinners. No claim of self righteousness, just a group who long to share the good news and a new and better way to love and live.

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29. carmelo 10/01/2017 at 3:42 PM

    Rosaria champagne butterfiled.
    Professor of English lit and queer theory – formerly at Syracuse university
    Former Lesbian and Gay activist :
    enjoy the 30 minute video:
    My Train Wreck Conversion
    

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30. Andrew Bush 10/01/2017 at 4:00 PM

    Really, I wish people, either dishonestly or intentionally, would stop mis-interpreting these verses from Leviticus. Please note firstly we have no idea who said these verses: a man or a woman. Secondly, we have no idea to whom these verses were said: again a man or a woman.

    What we do know are the circumstances that caused these verses to be spoken. When the Israelites conquered Canaan they did so village by village and town by town. In some villages and towns they simply killed the Canaanite men women and children. But in some villages and towns they first raped the men women and children. Note that please: they RAPED them; and this caused a residual sense of guilt. Initially this was dealt with by various verses coming in to the oral tradition. Some approximately four hundred an fifty years after the conquest of Canaan, during the time of the Babylonian exile, when the Hebrew bible was written, this residual sense of guilt and these verses were written in to Leviticus. “You shall not lie with a man as with a woman” was one of those verses. It was a verse against the use of rape as a weapon of dominion, as a weapon of power, and as a weapon of war. There have been many scholars, meaning literally hundreds, who have carefully and thoroughly researched these verses and written about them. I can not list them all here but let me mention one. He is the George Atkinson Professor of Theology and Ethics at the Wilamete University in Salem Origen, Professor Steven Patterson. Professor Patterson is a world renowned scholar, is a member of the Society for Biblical Literature, is a member of the Westar Institute and the Jesus Seminars, (to which I also belong – yes, I am a theologian also), and he has written extensively about the verse I have quoted above. This verse has absolutely nothing to do with sexual activities between two people of the same gender: or between two people of the opposite genders for that matter. The people that use this verse in this way that I have discussed this with, the many people, consist of some who do so deliberately dishonestly, whilst other, probably the majority, do so out of ignorance. You should read up and take note of what the scholars have said about the meaning of this verse instead of seriously mis-using it. If your commentary uses it in this wrong way, go out and buy a better commentary.

    Another FACT that should be noted is this. Whilst there are a small number of verses that imply a view, (with views both for and against relations between people of the same gender), there is no verse, no verse at all, that condemns outright sexual activities or relations between two people of the same gender. And, if you think there is, first check what the outstanding scholars say it means, and then reject alternative suggested meanings.

    Andrew Bush.
    10-1-17.

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    1. Gladly, the Cross-Eyed Bear: Assorted Rants on Religion, Science, Politics and Philosophy from a bear of very little brain Post author10/01/2017 at 4:22 PM

       Thank you, Andrew. Sadly, there are too many foolish people who favour a literal reading of a book that was never intended to be taken literally. They want the book to reinforce their own prejudices and believe if something seems ‘icky’ to them, God must think that way too.

       Fundamentalists will disregard nuanced interpretations of the Bible and declare you can’t know what it REALLY means unless the Holy Spirit has come upon you and given you the ‘special power’ to know what God really meant – which is whatever rubbish their bigoted pastor shouts from the pulpit on a Sunday morning, just before they sign over 10% of their income for the brainwashing.

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